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Apple needs to release OS X (or its replacement) for non-Apple hardware as a separately branded product if they ever hope to compete with Microsoft's OS market share.

 

This way Apple wouldn't risk losing hardware sales to clones and could offer the mainstream computer market a Microsoft OS alternative ("mainstream" being those that aren't wealthy enough to buy new Apple hardware).

 

And as someone else mentioned previously -- Apple would really have a shot at hurting Microsoft's dominance if its OS had a compatibility layer that allowed MS-compiled apps to be run natively. (Hopefully they'll dump a bunch of money into Wine)

 

Apple will never ship or produce OSX for generic PCs, it's simply a logistical impossibility. Doing so would require them to hire, oh I don't know, 50,000 support people in no time flat to handle the deluge of phone calls from the hordes of people scampering to stores and buying it then getting home and not knowing how to do much of anything if they've never used a Mac ever before.

 

Besides, the other reason - not from the basic customer support for just being able to use the operating system - would be Apple simply cannot support the near infinite variety of hardware that exists in the PC universe, nor will every manufacturer on the planet suddenly start coding drivers for their hardware so it functions on Intel/AMD based machines using OSX.

 

Be nice if people would think about that before automagically thinking "Apple needs to ship OSX to people like <insert Windows user name here>" because it'll never happen.

 

bb

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And you forgot that the profit margin off of selling the Mac OS isn't anywhere near the profit margin of selling a Macintosh computer (Apple is still a hardware company, always remember that). In order to keep Apple afloat, one of two things will have to happen:

 

1. Apple will need to sell an ungodly amount of CD's, which will never happen

 

2. Apple will have to raise prices, possibly to the point where it's more expensive than Windows in order to turn a profit, thus imposing an artificial price ceiling and creating a surplus of goods (meaning Apple still won't sell the Mac OS).

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Yep, there is a lot of truth in that.

 

Always remember that Microsoft exists today and is the company it is because of a few simple words:

 

"Sure, we can do that. License the operating system from you folks at Microsoft, while you retain the actual ownership of the code and all future revisions and related products. No problem." -- The last words of some hapless IBM executive who just didn't have the foresight to realize what he'd just done after accepting Microsoft's terms of contract with IBM for MS-DOS.

 

My how the mighty have fallen... :(

 

bb

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  • 4 weeks later...
I think Windows Vista will be a big failure and Bill knows it will be, too. He left Microsoft before Vista was release because he didn't want to take most of the blame when Vista turns out to be less stable and more buggier than Win 98 was. I predict that Vista will fail, and when it doesn, Apple will take it's marketshare, and all will be good.

 

ROFLOLOL now that was funny!

Not that any of it will ever come true, but funny nonetheless :)

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Scarry, isn't it? I am unfortunatly serious about it. Look, prices for everything else goes up, cars , rent, gasoline etc.... In europe it's because those {censored}s changed the monetary system and invented the euro or because oil prices increase or whatever. There is only ONE market that decreases constantly consumer prices and that's the computer market. However ppl do want (read: expect) service when things break down, and they do break down in the IT-world. But that cost money. It's as if everyone else may earn big bucks except the professionals in the IT-world. I remember when I was a respected man as a DTP-officer in the early 90's nowadays I'm worth jack-{censored} as an IT-professional.

If you want to play games at thier best just buy a console. For god's sake. An Xbox has a much lesser performant CPU and much lesser GFX-card and yet every game scrolls way smoother on that then on your overclocked, fluid cooled, nuclear power plant under your desk.

 

It's clear Gaming on PC's is over. Except from a few excotic strategy games. Microsoft acknowledge that, that's why they invented the Xbox and Xbox360. That's why games nowadays come out FIRST for Xbox and LATER for PC's (read: for that happy few that spend millions to build a power plant under their desk)

Apple in the past welcomed clone builders. The reason why they ditched that route was that these clone biulders made higher-end macs then Apple did, instead of building low-end Macs Apple wanted them to build in the first place. Profit is not in those cheap dump-ass HP or Dell PC's but in high end equipment unless you go for large volume sales. So I'm sure if Dell would build cheap Apple clones, Apple would welcome them as a partner.

 

As for interoperability? What the hell is that? As I said before. most ppl need some job to get done. They don't care wether it's done by that computer running Windows or Mac OS. In fact my own mother doesn't even know (read: realise) that the program she uses to surf the internet is called "Microsoft Internet Explorer" and she doesn't understand why I urge her to use "Mozilla Firefox" instead (which I also installed on her PC).

 

Your remark about "open file formats" is even more ridiculous (especially to me). I personally fought for open standards when I suported the European invented RISC OS properiarity systems for ages. That system strictly adhered to "open standards" and it is completely riduculed by the Microsoft properiatery standard (AKA Microsoft Office). In fact even Open Office realise that adopting properiatery MS Office standard as the facto standard is the only way to gain market. It's all {censored}. The big players dictate the market and the rest must follow if they want to gain any recognision at all. We can demand open standard as long as we want, it's that certain properiatery standard that drives the market.

 

So I tell you this. I don't appreciate being pushed around by those big jack-ass players any more then you do. But if I do have to choose a player I'd rather choose for the one who has at least a vision of "how we ought to use computers" and really doing something about it to make life easier for us. Especially when they even add some style and grace to it. Apple is one o/t the best players in this field IMHO as far as properiatery systems are concerned. Sure in person, Steve is probably worse than Bill... but he HAS a vision that I can relate to and he sticks to it. That earns my respect at least. Bill just wan to fill his pockets.

 

Regards,

 

EPDM

 

 

emm dude, i dont want an xbox or xbox 360 because pc hardware will always be more powerful, this is because i can just throw a new gpu in my box (or 2, or even 4) but u cant with ur xbox, and you havve to wait until its totially outdated b4 u get some new options... that sucks, and pc games have more graphics because tehy can be made for the bleeding edge, not what was the mid range when the sys came out and its not changing. Pc hardware will always have the upperhand, and as such so will the games... plus u can do functional stuff too... but im not goin into that.

 

 

max

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when Vista turns out to be less stable and more buggier than Win 98 was. I predict that Vista will fail, and when it doesn, Apple will take it's marketshare, and all will be good.

 

 

you know what and itll still sell becuse stupid poeple dont know whats good for 'em

 

a lot of poeple dont know what osx is let aone the merits of using it

 

which is the sad thing cause its realy the dumb people who dont know s**t which is deciding who gets market share

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I use Microsoft Windows Vista RC 1, works great on all three of my Dells. Mac is great, but I like vista better

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you know what and itll still sell becuse stupid poeple dont know whats good for 'em

 

a lot of poeple dont know what osx is let aone the merits of using it

 

which is the sad thing cause its realy the dumb people who dont know s**t which is deciding who gets market share

 

I won't say those people who use Windows is stupid, but actually they never try Mac OS. Before I also was a Windows user and I always heard people said that Apple + Mac OS is only for professionals, and business because it's expensive than PCs. But then when I bought iBook + Panther it just different from what I heard before. I'm an electronic engineering student and now further to system engineering, and Mac OS can do almost everything I need (although some software that i need is not available in Mac OS) together giving me new experience and be more creative wth those iLife, iWork and many more software - those software only available in Mac OS only and curretly I already have 3 Macs (iBook, iMac and MacBook).

 

Vista is good, it's a very huge upgrade and many new features, but I only like the GUI of Vista, not the other feeatures. I am a Mac user now, of course I will try Vista when it came out but I will never go back to Windows world ^_^

 

Cheers.

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I won't say those people who use Windows is stupid, but actually they never try Mac OS. Before I also was a Windows user and I always heard people said that Apple + Mac OS is only for professionals, and business because it's expensive than PCs. But then when I bought iBook + Panther it just different from what I heard before. I'm an electronic engineering student and now further to system engineering, and Mac OS can do almost everything I need (although some software that i need is not available in Mac OS) together giving me new experience and be more creative wth those iLife, iWork and many more software - those software only available in Mac OS only and curretly I already have 3 Macs (iBook, iMac and MacBook).

 

Vista is good, it's a very huge upgrade and many new features, but I only like the GUI of Vista, not the other feeatures. I am a Mac user now, of course I will try Vista when it came out but I will never go back to Windows world :)

 

Cheers.

 

 

rofl to both of you guys... i used osx and i still use windows for the majority... i dont like apple or osx that much (i hate apple now, but thats just a personal thing...) and also notice that i did not say vista would be good... because i dont think it will be... :P but i guess well just have to wait and see...

 

max

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Haha I also didn't say Vista is not good, what I said is:

 

"Vista is good, it's a very huge upgrade and many new features, but I only like the GUI of Vista, not the other feeatures. I am a Mac user now, of course I will try Vista when it came out but I will never go back to Windows world smile.gif"

 

I like Vista but I like Mac OS more, that's all :)

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my opinion is, that there is no comparison between windows and os x.

windows is for me like a carpet, stiched together from several patches..

os x is something complete, round, i would say perfect if it would be like that ;-)

 

on windows you can easily do things you cannot easily do on a mac (like bridging a network-connection), and vice-versa (like working without beeing nagged by your firewall ;-) ).

 

i have worked for 2 years with os x now, and 6 years before that, i only had windows...so i have the comparison, and i must say... the windows pc is for gaming and stuff that doenst matter, the powerbook is for creativity, work, audio, etc.

 

i found out that my workflow on mac is waaaaaaayyy faster and better as on shiny windows xp with design-effects on.

 

i am going to buy a macbook pro, and i will install windows on it, because, for some reason, i will need it again. but if i see those guys who buy a macbook pro and want to delete os x, because they only want windows on it, i cannot figure out how dumb one could be to do so. it´s like throwing away the flesh of the apple an only biting hard on its core (?! dont know if its the right word)...

 

for me, os x is the better system, but i have friends, who tried to work with it, but they did not like it because they were not open for changes (and to windows-oriented)....you cannot use it to its full expense if you dont learn how to use it properly....and this time, to learn it, is too much for many dumb people out there.

 

sorry for my flaming, but i cannot understand how someone who wants to be creative can use windows. everything else, data-management, chatting, gaming, senseless stuff goes very well on windows ....

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Haha I also didn't say Vista is not good, what I said is:

 

"Vista is good, it's a very huge upgrade and many new features, but I only like the GUI of Vista, not the other feeatures. I am a Mac user now, of course I will try Vista when it came out but I will never go back to Windows world smile.gif"

 

I like Vista but I like Mac OS more, that's all ;)

'

 

 

i didnt say that... thats just me saying that i dont think it will be such a good os because it still seems no where near market ready to me but they need to since xp = 7years old... witch is a long time...

 

 

max

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I think we have to change our point of view to really comprehend Vista.

 

Most users know that there's only Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista... Some of them heard about Linux, maybe they tried it, but didn't like due to the Open Source "aspect".

 

Let's say that most users don't know that MacOS exists, or, at least, maybe they know it exists but absolutely know nothing about it, and what's more, they don't care about Macs.

 

Now, let's be the vast majority of the people. Let's think as they think: There's Windows, and maybe Linux.

Windows Vista, even in its Beta or RC stage is amazing.

It is becoming slightly faster than XP, the GUI is simply fantastic, and the old software on XP works without a hitch.

To the eyes of those people, Vista is something incredible.

 

When I was using the first Betas of Longhorn, I was like those people: never heard of a mac and don't care about it. I only knew Windows and Linux. And to my eyes Longhorn was exceptional.

 

Just try to get out of our "body" and let's be a simple user, give a look at Vista and share your opinions. :P

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my :) on windows is they know there going to put out software that has problems, some good some bad but there still problems... that's why we have all these help websites as consumers so we can fix what they should of fixed in the first place. But also you have to think everyone system is going to be different depending on the person how you tweak it to run the way you want? or not? to me why can't apple and microsoft get along and what would the world be like ? I don't know i think honestly whatever system you want to run vista, xp, osx whatever it's your choice thats why we live in a country where it's your choice to buy and grip about whatever you want.....Terry

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My opinion, vista sucks. I downloaded RC1 and it took me 20 minutes to find the control to change the desktop stuff. I liked things simple, similar to whats in windows XP, everything's easy to find. I actually like xp better then vista. I only like vista's aero designs and style, nothing more. I find it too complicated to work with in the first place.

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emm dude, i dont want an xbox or xbox 360 because pc hardware will always be more powerful, this is because i can just throw a new gpu in my box (or 2, or even 4) but u cant with ur xbox, and you havve to wait until its totially outdated b4 u get some new options... that sucks, and pc games have more graphics because tehy can be made for the bleeding edge, not what was the mid range when the sys came out and its not changing. Pc hardware will always have the upperhand, and as such so will the games... plus u can do functional stuff too... but im not goin into that.

max

 

pc and console gaming will always have their separate places, depends on what the user wants.. with pcs, you can upgrade your system, and certain games get different features that allow you to customize your experience for the system you are running it on (graphical goodieness). with consoles, you can't upgrade the hardware, but they are made to hold out for the amount of time they are on the market. and with the new generation of systems coming out, we are far ahead of some components pcs will see in the near future. example: 3 2.3ghz cpus in the 360 and the Cell in the ps3. they all play hd games with great physics, and ai at constant frame and performance rates. to get nearly the performance on a pc, you have to have the latest hardware. the big reason consoles have the upper hand here is because they were made specifically for gaming, nothing else. on the other hand, a pc must be able to do other things along with gaming.

another big difference is in price. for a console, you pay about $400. to get the latest pc that is going to keep up with a 360, your going to spend between $1000-1500. but you can also use your pc for other things, can't do that with a console.

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My opinion, vista sucks. I downloaded RC1 and it took me 20 minutes to find the control to change the desktop stuff. I liked things simple, similar to whats in windows XP, everything's easy to find. I actually like xp better then vista. I only like vista's aero designs and style, nothing more. I find it too complicated to work with in the first place.

 

What? 20 minutes?! I thought using Windows is just right-click and choose properties to change background? And I think the Vista I downloaded last 3 - 4 days is also same. Maybe you've downloaded another version of vista :D

 

BTW, I love the upgraded features in Vista, but I love Mac OS much more :sorcerer:

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I think the success rate of Vista will be low in the beginning because most people will try and hold onto XP, atleast until the support lets up and Vista is out for at least like a year (so all the kinks get worked out).

 

Personally, I love XP and im gonna hav a hard time giving it up. But im a gamer and the lack of DX10 on XP is going to force me and millions of gamers to upgrade sooner than some might want. I liked XP's simplicity - i could do what i want, everything was where i wanted it. Vista ups the standards on the everyday pc for that pretty 3d GUI. I'm all for 3d, but when you want to revert back to 2d, you have that not so attractive EMO look to it. You know what i'm talking about. It doesn't look as good as the 3d and its not pretty like XPs themes.

 

The sidebar is so obstructive - i can never figure out if i want it in sight above all windows, or below them (so im not taking up about 20 percent of my monitor space. they really need to hotkey it like dashboard.

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Ive never used a beta of Vista before, and probably will wait til the University has software licensing of it before I grab a copy. I hate to have to use it as its just a load of {censored}, at least it will be on my mac.

 

Can someone explain 2 things for me?

 

1. What the hell is with Flip3d? it looks so retarded its not even funny, not only its an Expose rip off, but its an incredibly bad one, you can even view the content of the back windows, gathering from the screenshots ive seen. Expose is a whole lot nicer, period.

 

2. Why are there 50 billon versions of Vista coming out, I mean if theres a way to confuse the customers to no end, thats it. And their all at different prices. I bet this screws up the updating mechanism as only certain updates will be for certain versions and if you grab the wrong update Vista will go kaboom, I seriously wonder who is actually making this stuff.

 

I will say now I hate Microsoft and all their corporate evilness,and will never purchase another piece of their worthless software again.

 

done ranting for now :thumbsdown_anim:

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Ive never used a beta of Vista before, and probably will wait til the University has software licensing of it before I grab a copy. I hate to have to use it as its just a load of {censored}, at least it will be on my mac.

 

Well you say it's a load of {censored} yet you also say you've never used it. Ignorance must be bliss as a mac zealot.

 

1. What the hell is with Flip3d? it looks so retarded its not even funny, not only its an Expose rip off, but its an incredibly bad one, you can even view the content of the back windows, gathering from the screenshots ive seen. Expose is a whole lot nicer, period.

 

Flip3d can have the exact same view as expose does. Windows and Macs have been copying each other for years. As for not being able to see the windows behind, it's just an effect. You can switch windows in that view easily. The window that you've selected is the one in front. Granted the default way though is the same way os x's expose is. Remember when os x didn't have user switching and windows xp did? Well now os x does have user switching. So it's not always one copying the other. And time machine was something that copied a microsoft feature called shadow copy. Shadow copy started out in windows 2003 with windows xp in the corporate environment. Now just like when microsoft copies an apple feature and makes it better, apple does the same thing when copying a microsoft feature. How did apple make it better? Simple. They brought it to the home user who has an external hard drive. So now for anyone complaining about apple copying microsoft or microsoft copying apple, immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

2. Why are there 50 billon versions of Vista coming out, I mean if theres a way to confuse the customers to no end, thats it. And their all at different prices. I bet this screws up the updating mechanism as only certain updates will be for certain versions and if you grab the wrong update Vista will go kaboom, I seriously wonder who is actually making this stuff.

 

This is purely for the clients microsoft has. Some want more features, others need less. It's confusing though. But atleast Microsoft is enabling it so that you can unlock features as you need them instead of having to do an upgrade. Plus why have all the features there if you don't use them when you can pay less for only the features you use.

 

I will say now I hate Microsoft and all their corporate evilness,and will never purchase another piece of their worthless software again.

 

done ranting for now :censored2:

 

We thank you for your rant and your biasness. Come again.

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i been using Vista and it doesnt shows its potential yet .

i think that the interface is frendlier but nothing else .

OOOSXXX its better period. More simple interface but easy .

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We thank you for your rant and your biasness. Come again.

 

Yeah after reading my post the next day I realized It really was a biased post. I did attempt to use Vista once, but it crashed before I could even install it and said screw it. Now with that, I do planon using it eventually, as most people will when Microsoft switches everything over, but it doesnt mean that I'll learn to believe that its the greatest thing ever. Over the past few months Ive read countless articles about Vista and its problems, granted the larger and more destructive bugs have been taken care of, it seems that Vista is not what is should be as in features, as in a lot of the features that were dropped such as WinFS.

 

Ive used Windows for years, and it was only last year that I switched to a Mac so my knowledge of Windows is fairly decent, true not knowing how Vista runs hinders my judgement, but honestly, has anything really improved? I mean, its still has all the stuff that makes it, well Windows. Like the registry :blink:. I mean looking through that just scares me. I think the problem is that Microsoft spends too much time on backwards compatibilty, perhaps they should try something like a Classic Enviroment for older Windows Apps, you never know.

 

Yes it is true that Apple and Microsoft have been copying each other for years, but that raises the question, why imitate when you can innovate? I guess it is more true to say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Perhaps when I finally get the release version of Vista, I'll judge that for myself based on my experiences with Windows XP and Tiger.

 

I can understand why Microsoft may want to do so many separate offerings, but at the same time it still can be very confusing for the end user. What Microsoft must do is have charts up whereever they sell Vista. Highlighting all the new features that it contains, but show with checkboxes and such which versions contain which. Another chart says, "If you willing be doing...x,y,x-then we recommend this." It is cructual that they make it easy for the consumers to be able to choose the right version so they dont get screwed over. Or just have one version and make it a package based installer like linux :D.

 

As an endnote I'll try to be less bias with my postings and try to respect Microsoft, but I mean... :blink: never mind, I wont say anything else offensive. :).

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