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I don't really know what you mean by pegged. You should really learn how to program (read: program) before you start posting tools (and if you're really looking for a challenge, make sure they're useful & not retarded!). Applescript is not a programming language.

 

I am an {censored}, but only to people that have it coming.

 

 

(yes I realized I typed shows instead of shoes, it's too late to edit since you've already quoted it)

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So you don't find it useful. Maybe it's not useful. Maybe I shouldn't have posted it!

 

I find it completely/annoyingly useless. Besides the fact that stops the people from learning a basic. Maybe you shouldnt have post it

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I don't really know what you mean by pegged. You should really learn how to program (read: program) before you start posting tools (and if you're really looking for a challenge, make sure they're useful & not retarded!). Applescript is not a programming language.

 

Look, I've got nothing against you and I'm not really the type to start a flame war online. Obviously this isn't an uber fantastic program (er, script) and I now realize it doesn't really have a place here in New Releases thanks to your generous responses. To avoid further conflict, I'll stop posting my silly little apps here.

 

Thank you for your input.

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Please ignore these bitter comments and keep doing and posting what you want. At least you are giving back something positive.

 

:soapbox:

 

I have near-infinite respect and admiration for the people who make the wheels turn like Netkas, dfe, the people on the Voodoo and Chameleon dev teams and so on but surely there is room for everyone here....we can't all be geniuses, everybody has to start somewhere.

 

Some people don't want to learn anything, and want everything explained to them. And then, after you explain it to them the best you can it turns out that they don't know how to read (I hate it when that happens, Pere knows what I mean). But PCWiz or Weaksauce12 didn't create these people and made them appear out of nowhere.

 

I can understand the p.o.v. that GUIs make people stupid or lazy but I don't see what that has to do with anything. If you don't feel like reading or responding to another 'will this work' post..well then don't. If you are tired of people that don't want or don't know how to read, remember that you are free to leave them alone and spend your energy elsewhere.

 

I know that this place used to be a haven for a small and like-minded, pioneering crowd but those days are long gone now. There's now a steady influx of people who seem to know nothing about computers or about their own computers, and they ask the same questions over and over. And they'll eat those GUI tools right up. mmm delicious.

 

Script and GUI tool writers didn't summon these people!

 

In another forum that I've been frequenting for years, we have a closed section for senior members. It's excellent for letting off steam, sharing ideas and just generally hang out with other people who are on the same level as you. It helps to keep the older, valuable and experienced members in the community. Maybe you insanleymac old timers should do the same over here.

 

I LIKE to use OSX86Tools, EFI Studio, XCode's plist editor and ACPIPatcher...but if I have to use the terminal I will.

I don't think OSX86Tools or any of the other GUI apps has made me stupid, if anything they've made me curious. And they've certainly gotten me out of some tight spots.

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Please ignore these bitter comments and keep doing and posting what you want. At least you are giving back something positive.

 

:soapbox:

 

I have near-infinite respect and admiration for the people who make the wheels turn like Netkas, dfe, the people on the Voodoo and Chameleon dev teams and so on but surely there is room for everyone here....we can't all be geniuses, everybody has to start somewhere.

 

Some people don't want to learn anything, and want everything explained to them. And then, after you explain it to them the best you can it turns out that they don't know how to read (I hate it when that happens, Pere knows what I mean). But PCWiz or Weaksauce12 didn't create these people and made them appear out of nowhere.

 

I can understand the p.o.v. that GUIs make people stupid or lazy but I don't see what that has to do with anything. If you don't feel like reading or responding to another 'will this work' post..well then don't. If you are tired of people that don't want or don't know how to read, remember that you are free to leave them alone and spend your energy elsewhere.

 

I know that this place used to be a haven for a small and like-minded, pioneering crowd but those days are long gone now. There's now a steady influx of people who seem to know nothing about computers or about their own computers, and they ask the same questions over and over. And they'll eat those GUI tools right up. mmm delicious.

 

Script and GUI tool writers didn't summon these people!

 

In another forum that I've been frequenting for years, we have a closed section for senior members. It's excellent for letting off steam, sharing ideas and just generally hang out with other people who are on the same level as you. It helps to keep the older, valuable and experienced members in the community. Maybe you insanleymac old timers should do the same over here.

 

I LIKE to use OSX86Tools, EFI Studio, XCode's plist editor and ACPIPatcher...but if I have to use the terminal I will.

I don't think OSX86Tools or any of the other GUI apps has made me stupid, if anything they've made me curious. And they've certainly gotten me out of some tight spots.

A paragraph-by-paragraph rebuttal:

 

1. Voodoo devs & related developers have absolutely nothing to do with, nor anything in common with, weaksauce or this application, or any of its type. You cannot possibly bring something so irrelevant into the discussion.

2. Making applications like these doesn't require anything to be explained or learned, which is the major problem with projects such as OSx86. Sure pcwiz and his apps don't create these people, but they allow them to flourish in a community where they should not be present let alone welcomed.

3. Once again you've veered into a totally unrelated topic. People asking questions about hardware & not searching has nothing to do with GUI wrappers for easy-to-use command line interface tools. GUI apps for simple things like these discourage the trial and error process, and therefore discourage learning (we all learn from and make mistakes, whether you would like to admit it or not). Often things like OSx86 Tools cause problems because inexperienced users try to do things with it when they don't know what it does; a major gripe of mine with osx86 tools is that it has no explanation of what any of "its" tools do exactly.

4. You joined after InsanelyMac was sold to fubra, so what would you know about how "this place used to be?" (A note on this one: I have been around here for a lot longer than most, but you cannot see that from my join date or profile. If it is the same condition with you, and you used to go by another name or account, feel free to point that out. I see no evidence of that whatsoever, however).

5. Yes they do, see #3.

6. They have that, it's called the staff forum. Only lately that forum has become trash too (perhaps further hinting at the condition of this place as a whole).

7. Xcode's property list editor, EFI studio, and ACPIPatcher are in a totally different class — they don't just wrap existing tools (UNIX tools, no less) into a fancy GUI.

8. The question isn't whether it makes people more stupid, but do tools like these prevent learning? Yes, they serve as an easy way out to people who are too lazy to see osx86 as a hobby. These people are just looking for a quick way to get a mediocre installation running so they can use it for iphone developing or video editing or whatever nonsensical thing they should buy a mac for.

 

"a hackintosh is a PC no matter how you twist & turn it, and the installation of an unsupported OS is a hobby-task for those with an interest in such things. Those trying to get a "Mac for free" by this route are always disappointed."

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8. The question isn't whether it makes people more stupid, but do tools like these prevent learning? Yes, they serve as an easy way out to people who are too lazy to see osx86 as a hobby. These people are just looking for a quick way to get a mediocre installation running so they can use it for phone developing or video editing or whatever nonsensical thing they should buy a mac for.

 

"to people who are too lazy to see osx86 as a hobby"

 

I drive a car, but I don't enjoy working on it. In fact, I don't even change my own oil - I run down to the Jiffy Lube for that! The point of my car, for my purposes, is to get me from Point A to Point B. If working on cars is your hobby, then that's great! If not, that's fine too! Just because someone doesn't want to make a tool into a hobby, doesn't make them stupid, lazy, or any less valid. Just because someone else designed and built the car doesn't mean that I can't benefit from driving it without investing in a heavy technical knowledge of the inner workings of it. Hackintoshes can be a hobby on many different levels, or can simply be a portal to a less-expensive and more customized computer that runs OS X. It's not your way or the highway, it's called diversity. Not everyone has the same goals or interests as you, and just because someone wants a working machine easily doesn't mean they shouldn't build a Hackintosh.

 

Likewise, it's completely ridiculous to say "whatever nonsensical thing they should buy a mac for" - the whole point of a computer is to be a useful tool for doing other activities with. If OSx86 development is your thing, fine. If iPhone development is your thing, fine too. If video editing is your thing, guess what - that's fine as well! To say that the OSx86 project only exists so you can continue to tinker with it is like saying that a televison only exists so you can play with the wires inside of it - the stuff that makes it run doesn't necessary equate to other purposes of the project, and just because a person doesn't want to become a TV repairman doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to enjoy watching TV. If development is in line with your interests, that's great, but that's not the only thing this project is limited to. I'm not really keen on spending $2800 on a Mac Pro for what I use my computer for, nor does staying up till the wee hours of the night programming OSx86 stuff interest me much.

 

If the sole focus of the OSx86 community was to be a learning process, then we wouldn't have nice, easy tools like BOOT-132, the Voodoo Project, Kalyway and other distributions, and other great tools that make it easy to install Leopard with. You're basically knocking everyone's contributions in this community by saying it's only for hardcore hobbyists who should learn Terminal, because a lot of people have contributed some really great tools and guides to make it easier for end-users who want a less-expensive Mac, a customized machine, and so on and so forth. With your line of thinking, what's the point in doing this? Why not just make everything command-line and do it all by hand, instead of writing useful tools to make things easier?

 

You can keep posting in this thread, but your display of arrogance is astounding. I appreciate your advice on my silly little app and will refrain from posting similar things here in the future. I made a mistake and I can tell I hurt your feelings by posting it, so I apologize. If you need a hug, let me know :P

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That's how it used to be until people like you allowed the influx of noobs to flourish.

 

Oh, forgot to mention that all your analogies are unrelated. Oil is meant to be changed and cars are meant to go from place to place; TVs are meant to be watched. OS X is not meant to run on a generic PC.

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That's how it used to be until people like you allowed the influx of noobs to flourish.

 

I'm thrilled that you've chosen me to be the scapegoat of all of your perceived problems here on InsanelyMac! You are obviously an incredibly focused individual - it makes me wonder why InsanelyMac has sub-forums for tutorials, hardware and post-install help, multi-booting and virtualization discussion, and all of these other areas of knowledge-sharing that you find so disgusting! I'm shocked and dismayed that you have allowed people like myself to create and share tools and guides to make life easier for people with goals other than your own! Do you have a sword handy? Obviously hari-kari is the only solution for my mis-deeds here on these forums! :P

 

Oh, forgot to mention that all your analogies are unrelated. Oil is meant to be changed and cars are meant to go from place to place; TVs are meant to be watched. OS X is not meant to run on a generic PC.

 

I think my brain just exploded...if OS X is not meant to run on a generic PC then...why....are you...here? :wacko:

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Well, for somebody trying to plug an app, you're certainly being a smug little :P .

 

Have you even read through this thread? First, I was responding to someone else. Second, I said it was obviously a mistake to post it here. Third, plugging implies that I'm making money off it or trying to get some kind of gain...I'm just sharing a little tool that I made that I've found useful, and obviously others don't. There's so much retaliation that I said I wouldn't bother posting little apps like this again! End of story. But go ahead and jump on the criticism bandwagon...

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Have you even read through this thread?

 

Have you taken your own advice? If you were not aware, or you just forgot, I already posted... And wouldn't you know it, you responded :P

 

Anyway, seems you're being overly smug over your little brouhaha earlier in the thread. Your weaksauce (in analogies and otherwise) fails to win any argument that there was to be had.

 

It's your perogative on whether you post your app or not, but don't be surprised if this happens again.

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No, it isn't. I'm trying to fix you before you get corrupted like pcwiz. Tasks such as these take drastic {censored}s such as myself.

 

You have a completely skewed reality of the osx86 scene & I hope what you take what I said above to heart, since you need it. Otherwise you will be scoffed at by the members of this scene that do actually matter and do actually make a difference.

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You have a completely skewed reality of the osx86 scene & I hope what you take what I said above to heart, since you need it.

 

With all respect, I'd like to offer you a suggestion: your view of the OSx86 scene needs to grow - because the scene has grown. It's progressed from a hardcore technical knowledge-only level of users to something that is featured on Lifehacker (if that's any indicator of how easy it is now!). We have over 100,000 members here, and yet I can still count on one hand the number of core developers like netkas, dfe, zef, etc. What does that tell you about the level of technical competancy of the majority of the users here? If we had 100k+ technical users here, I bet we'd be seeing a lot more rapid development. My point is (aside from the issue of the simplicity of the little KextSpy app I posted), the situation has changed with respect to the type of users who are now in the scene - it's no longer limited to heavy technical users.

 

It's the same thing that happened to the XBMC community - it was super-difficult at first, but now you can download a boot CD, do a softmod, and have XBMC up and running in no time without much effort. The work of the technical users have opened the door to a lot more people enjoying the fruits of their labors.

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With all respect, I'd like to offer you a suggestion: your view of the OSx86 scene needs to grow - because the scene has grown. It's progressed from a hardcore technical knowledge-only level of users to something that is featured on Lifehacker (if that's any indicator of how easy it is now!). We have over 100,000 members here, and yet I can still count on one hand the number of core developers like netkas, dfe, zef, etc. What does that tell you about the level of technical competancy of the majority of the users here? If we had 100k+ technical users here, I bet we'd be seeing a lot more rapid development. My point is (aside from the issue of the simplicity of the little KextSpy app I posted), the situation has changed with respect to the type of users who are now in the scene - it's no longer limited to heavy technical users.

 

It's the same thing that happened to the XBMC community - it was super-difficult at first, but now you can download a boot CD, do a softmod, and have XBMC up and running in no time without much effort. The work of the technical users have opened the door to a lot more people enjoying the fruits of their labors.

 

It's only grown because of individuals, such as pcwiz and yourself creating tools to dumb down the process. This creates an influx of noobs and causes problems to become redundant, creates veteran apathy and ultimately does nothing to help the community.

 

I tip my hat for your effort, but honestly, dumbing down the process is not the way to do it.

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Gentleman, let #%.Anon take care of this weak sauce.

(I mean seriously, wtf, show's what kexts are loaded xD)

 

Sorry for lame reply, But I am at work.

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With all due respect, it is these useless tools which prevent users from actually understanding how OS X works. Too many noobs are now running OS X on mutated machines and polluting the scene with these tools only helps to further the ignorance of those who use them.

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weaksauce12: ever notice how none of the original core members are around anymore? doesn't that say ANYTHING at all to you? I bet it doesn't which is why you have a skewed view.

 

So you're expecting me not to have a skewed view...when none of the original, core members are around anymore, and that's supposed to say something to me, but you're expecting me to know that, when they aren't here, which should say something to me? I'm having trouble following your logic here, lol. So you're you're complaining about a situation that already exists because of other factors, but you're also complaining that these factors have affected my views, and it's my fault and you're taking it out on me because these people already left?

 

Thanks for the pic, I think I have a new poster for my wall now ;)

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With all due respect, it is these useless tools which prevent users from actually understanding how OS X works. Too many noobs are now running OS X on mutated machines and polluting the scene with these tools only helps to further the ignorance of those who use them.

 

Then why don't we start a sub-forum for Newbies? Judging by bulk of the content I read on the forums here, many people are simply here to build a cheap Mac and don't want to learn how OS X works. I mean, go look in the Graphics sub-forum, it mostly just consists of "why X graphics card wont work can someone fix it plz?". That would certainly help divert traffic from other sub-forums. We could argue that InsanelyMac is soley for development purposes and not for end-users of Hackintosh systems, but with the amount of users we have versus the amount of development getting done, that obviously isn't the case in reality.

 

Do you have any suggestions?

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