CIA busted lying to Congress about 2001 slaughter.

[bofors]

CIA Withheld Details On Downing, IG Says

Shooting in Peru Killed Missionary, Infant

 

By Joby Warrick

Washington Post Staff Writer

Friday, November 21, 2008; Page A08

An internal CIA probe has concluded that agency officials deliberately misled Congress, the White House and federal prosecutors about key details of the 2001 downing of an airplane carrying U.S. missionaries in Peru, according to a senior lawmaker who called yesterday for a new criminal inquiry into the case.

 

The agency's inspector general said CIA officers repeatedly ignored rules of engagement in a joint U.S.-Peruvian campaign to halt airborne drug smugglers, resulting in the downing of at least 10 other aircraft without proper warnings. Afterward, CIA managers concealed the problems from lawmakers and the Justice Department, the agency watchdog said.

 

Even the White House was kept in the dark, as agency officials and lawyers withheld key details while cautioning their staff to avoid putting anything in writing that might be used later in a criminal or civil case, the inspector general said in a report.

 

Unclassified excerpts from the report were released by Rep. Peter Hoekstra (Mich.), the ranking Republican on the House intelligence committee, who blasted the agency for actions that he said were tantamount to obstruction of justice.

...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ml?hpid=topnews

 

 

 

Republican Rep. Hoekstra accuses CIA of cover-up

 

New report says CIA "withheld information" from investigators, Congress

Rep. Pete Hoekstra criticized "rogue" employees, called for new hearings

Hoekstra: Issue is at "heart of the American people's ability to trust the CIA"

Two Americans were killed when plane was shot down in Peru

 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A top Republican lawmaker is accusing employees at the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency of blocking investigations into the downing of a missionary plane in Peru that killed two Americans in 2001.

 

Rep. Pete Hoekstra on Thursday criticized "rogue" CIA employees involved in a joint CIA-Peruvian anti-narcotics program of withholding information after declassification of a CIA report identifying "routine disregard" of safety procedures that led to the plane being shot down.

 

A 7-month-old girl and her mother died.

 

The comments come after a new internal report by the CIA's inspector general -- parts of which were released Thursday -- that said Congress and investigators were not given appropriate access to internal documents regarding the incident.

 

"This issue goes to the heart of the American people's ability to trust the CIA," the Michigan lawmaker said Thursday. "Americans deserve to know that agencies given the power to operate on their behalf aren't abusing that power or their trust."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/20/cia.coverup.charge/

 

 

 

 

Trust the CIA?

 

 

 

 

Stories related by Google here:

http://news.google.com/?ncl=1272592031&hl=en&topic=n

 

 

 

 

See the actual shootdown video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T7JDtHrPQA

 

 

 

 

Let me tell you, I am from Michigan (as were those people the CIA slaughtered). If you have to wait for a neo-con blowhard like Michigan Rep. Hoekstra to tell you that we have a problem with the CIA, it is already too late.

[SticMAC™]

Are you sure you didn't change your name from JondeSavage to Bofors!?

 

S

[bofors]

Are you sure you didn't change your name from JondeSavage to Bofors!?

 

S

 

I am sorry, perhaps you should explain what you think is so amusing here? I do not understand.

 

Tell me, exactly what is so funny about the CIA's slaughter of a woman and her baby from my State of Michigan (and cover-up)?

[SticMAC™]

Dude, you are beginning to sound as paranoid as "John the Savage"

 

 

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...sult_type=posts

 

Your posts look like his, sound like his, the contents are like his......... so I was just wondering?

 

Why don't you do something CONSTRUCTIVE with your time, like digging in the garden or mowing the lawn!?

 

SticMAC

 

I am sorry, perhaps you should explain what you think is so funny here?

 

I do not understand.

[bofors]

Dude, you are beginning to sound as paranoid as "John the Savage"

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...sult_type=posts

 

Your posts look like his, sound like his, the contents are like his......... so I was just wondering?

 

Why don't you do something CONSTRUCTIVE with your time, like digging in the garden or mowing the lawn!?

 

SticMAC

 

 

Paranoid, eh? Last year, I awoke with a Glock to my head.

 

 

The ACLU has declared my State of Michigan, to a be "Constitution-Free Zone":

 

 

http://www.infowars.com/?p=5491

 

 

Maybe you should get hobby too... trying to pull your head out of your a$$.

 

It should keep you occupied for quite awhile and spare the rest of us from any more of your moronic posts.

[SticMAC™]

Dude, I lived in South Africa for 42 years, a Glock would be the LEAST of your problems!!

......Paranoid, eh? Last year, I awoke with a Glock to my head.

 

You MUST be "John the Savage"!! He also reverted to personal insults when he couldn't understand the point or he lost the argument!

.....Maybe you should get hobby too... trying to pull your head out of your a$.

It should keep you occupied for quite awhile and spare the rest of us from any more of your moronic posts.

 

 

SticMAC

Remember, mowing the lawn, at least your neighbors will see you made a difference!

[jgrimes80]

Dude, you are beginning to sound as paranoid as "John the Savage"

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...sult_type=posts

 

Your posts look like his, sound like his, the contents are like his......... so I was just wondering?

 

Why don't you do something CONSTRUCTIVE with your time, like digging in the garden or mowing the lawn!?

 

SticMAC

 

Without people at least willing to challenge institution-based concepts, ideas, and stories, society would end up with a largely distorted picture of the world.

 

I'm not sure why you find it's appropriate to shrug off something concerning bofors' home state. Realistically, we now have an idea of what the CIA was up to 50 years ago. What makes you think things have drastically changed? What do you have as concrete knowledge that warrants washing over bofors' concern? Rendering his share as unconstructive???

 

I'll take a guess and say "Nothing, short of instinct." The point is you don't have to agree, but me (and likely others) will view your post as unnecessary and insulting. I'm not even going to mention your sequent post.

 

Personally, I enjoy reading alternative news; thanks for the share bofors.

 

-jgrimes80

[Generic George]

Without people at least willing to challenge institution-based concepts, ideas, and stories, society would end up with a largely distorted picture of the world.

 

Yes, but challenging a distorted world view, with one equally out of touch with reality but in a different way, doesn't really improve the situation any.

 

I'm not sure why you find it's appropriate to shrug off something concerning bofors' home state. Realistically, we now have an idea of what the CIA was up to 50 years ago. What makes you think things have drastically changed? What do you have as concrete knowledge that warrants washing over bofors' concern? Rendering his share as unconstructive???

 

I believe his comments were aimed at the general tone and attitude of bofor's posts, not the contents of this specific one. There's a saying that any text that involves more than 2-3 exclamation points is a sign of a deranged mind, bofors has a tendency to do the internet equivalent with excessive use of bold and italicized text.

[Synaesthesia]

We should always be aware about Human rights issues + abuses as well as government cover-ups.

 

I'm not surprised at all by this revelation though. After all, this is the CIA we're talking about - you know, supporting corrupt regimes, overthrowing countries + covert assassinations and all! I never trusted them!

[mp3228]

Since when did the CIA start lying...???

The CIA is a terrorist group.

 

And today's new buzzword is......

Human rights

Rights are Inaliable. Not given.

[djet]

I do have to agree with Stic here, after leaving the Real Life forum due to Jon, I very rarely venture back in, but from what I see, you exhibit a lot of similar characteristics, not nearly as much Ad Hominem though

[Generic George]

Rights are Inaliable. Not given.

 

Without either some method of enforcing those rights or support for those rights in a society, you can claim what ever rights you want, but it won't do you any good.

 

Slaves had "inalienable" rights before the civil war, but that didn't do them any good.

 

Homosexuals have "inalienable" rights to get married, but it doesn't do them any good here.

 

etc...

 

"Inalienable Rights" are a terrific concept, but like most concepts, their implementation in the real world leaves something to be desired.

[mp3228]

I do have to agree with Stic here, after leaving the Real Life forum due to Jon, I very rarely venture back in, but from what I see, you exhibit a lot of similar characteristics, not nearly as much Ad Hominem though

 

Why not just accept the fact that you are not the majority opinion?

 

Without either some method of enforcing those rights or support for those rights in a society, you can claim what ever rights you want, but it won't do you any good.

Slaves had "inalienable" rights before the civil war, but that didn't do them any good.

Homosexuals have "inalienable" rights to get married, but it doesn't do them any good here.

etc...

"Inalienable Rights" are a terrific concept, but like most concepts, their implementation in the real world leaves something to be desired.

 

Rights are not anything if you don't enforce them. Read the bill of rights. See #2 for enforcement.

[Alessandro17]

EVERYBODY STOP COMPARING BOFORS TO JOHN THE SAVAGE!

 

You are absolutely clueless. Bofors is one of the most senior members here. Without him, thousands of people including myself wouldn't have a working hackintosh.

 

On a sad day he discovered very unconfortable truths about his country and had the courage to start to fight. He has suffered because of that. As to all of you, stop believing in Santa Claus and in flying pigs and respect people who fight for a better tomorrow. You'd better do the same if you didn't prefer to bury your head in the sand.

[Generic George]

Read the bill of rights. See #2 for enforcement.

 

If this were true, then Iraq or Afghanistan would be one of the most free countries in the world. Every family in Iraq gets to have a fully automatic AK-47 and Afghanistan is also heavily armed. About the only kind of weapon that the Iraqi's are forbidden are anti-tank weapons and there's still plenty of those floating around.

 

Simply having guns is one of the worst ways to ensure freedom. If that's all you have, you get the law of the Jungle and might makes right. Just like you have in Iraq and Afghanistan now.

 

Rule of Law is an infinitely better way to ensure rights in a society. Lawsuits, laws and elections are a far less destructive way of settling issues. That's the kind of enforcement I was thinking of. Even if people disagree with laws in the US, they still mostly follow them and we have ways of dealing with people who won't, that don't involve just killing them.

[djet]

EVERYBODY STOP COMPARING BOFORS TO JOHN THE SAVAGE!

 

You are absolutely clueless. Bofors is one of the most senior members here. Without him, thousands of people including myself wouldn't have a working hackintosh.

 

On a sad day he discovered very unconfortable truths about his country and had the courage to start to fight. He has suffered because of that. As to all of you, stop believing in Santa Claus and in flying pigs and respect people who fight for a better tomorrow. You'd better do the same if you didn't prefer to bury your head in the sand.

 

Whatever happened to the right to disagree on this forum? Last time I checked, nothing on the Real Life forum will change much in actual real life, so quit the screaming and yelling like this is live-or-die stuff. This is simply a place to state your ideas and then for people civilly debate about them. The reason I compared JTS to Bofors, was because they exhibit the same sense of "I'm going to save the world through post after post revealing every wrongdoing ever committed by anyone and if you disagree with me then you obviously have your head stuck up your @$$ and have no right to disagree with me." I'm assuming most of us are old enough to realize how most people will not take well to being told "Why don't you do something CONSTRUCTIVE with your time, like digging in the garden or mowing the lawn!?" or "pull your head out of your a$$" or "You'd better do the same if you didn't prefer to bury your head in the sand." and generally it ruins the argument and turns the post into what this one has become.

[Alessandro17]

1)Whatever happened to the right to disagree on this forum?

 

2)This is simply a place to state your ideas and then for people civilly debate about them.

 

3)I'm assuming most of us are old enough to realize how most people will not take well to being told "Why don't you do something CONSTRUCTIVE with your time, like digging in the garden or mowing the lawn!?" or "pull your head out of your a$$" or "You'd better do the same if you didn't prefer to bury your head in the sand." and generally it ruins the argument and turns the post into what this one has become.

 

1)Nothing happened, but in every civilized forum you respect the most senior members.

 

2)That is not what happened. Bofors started very civilized. But SticMAC did not. Read comments #2 and 4 again.

 

3)"Why don't you do something CONSTRUCTIVE with your time, like digging in the garden or mowing the lawn!?" is what SticMAC said to bofors, not the other way around.

So read everything again and reconsider who was disrespectful in the first place.

 

I know bofors and he is normally a well educated, polite and gentle person. But there are limits.

[hotcorez]

Hello,

 

I just read this and I am ashamed that you are hating on each other.

 

I think that if someone has hard facts then they shouldn't be ignored. This is not made up or speculation for starters.

 

Personally i find several of your posts having a go at Bofors moronic. What value do you actually provide by criticizing others for the sake of making yourselves feel better?

 

I appreciate that this guy Bofors threatens you somehow. I would hate to think he was challenging what you already know in some way.

 

I also appreciate that some people would prefer a direct brain connection to CNN or some other go to media outlet.

 

Unless you have something constructive to add, why don't you just go to a topic that you prefer or can offer help in and comment on that instead.

 

The fact that people died should somehow be a concern right? Not for those that are concerned with protecting themselves from truth/alternative accounts which they can't handle or would prefer to ignore.

 

IMO, If you don't like the topic then go elsewhere basically. There are other topics.

 

Respect to all

[Alessandro17]

Extremely well said, hotcorez. You are a wise person.

And it was about time too somebody said the things you did.

[djet]

Okay first off, what I said was directed at everyone in the discussion, including SticMan. Now the reason I made the post was because you, Bofors AND SticMan had all resorted to personal insults. Sure, Bofors is a senior member, however, he should most likely have abstained from going to the same methods that SticMan did. Now, you are automatically going to disagree with me due to the fact that I agreed with SticMan earlier in the thread about Bofor's methods but if you analyze both me and hotcorez's posts you should realize both were saying very similar things. Quit the "name-calling" and post about the issues. Once again, that was what my post was about, not just Bofors and you Alessandro, but everyone in the topic. Sadly, this topic is so far gone from its original purpose that I do not think it can be brought back. It would take people admitting they might possibly could have been wrong and take a small hit to their pride.

[Alessandro17]

I read again your post #11

Albeit you agreed with SticMan, you weren't nearly as rude as him.

 

But then you attacked me personally for supporting bofors.

 

And, honestly, it wouldn't look as if hotcorez' style and yours bear any similarity.

 

You can't put the person who attacks and the person who is attacked in the same category.

[djet]

Getting back on topic:

 

Now that I've reread the article (sorry I admit I jumped wayyyy too fast on the "Shut up conspiracy theorist" bandwagon") this does seem to be Roosevelt Corollary still in action down in Latin America. Kinda like if in the End of the Spear as they were flying down the river and all of a sudden a fighter pilot comes and shoots them down... definitely not something that should go unnoticed. Thanks for the heads up Bofors!

[mp3228]

If this were true, then Iraq or Afghanistan would be one of the most free countries in the world. Every family in Iraq gets to have a fully automatic AK-47 and Afghanistan is also heavily armed. About the only kind of weapon that the Iraqi's are forbidden are anti-tank weapons and there's still plenty of those floating around.

 

Simply having guns is one of the worst ways to ensure freedom. If that's all you have, you get the law of the Jungle and might makes right. Just like you have in Iraq and Afghanistan now.

 

Rule of Law is an infinitely better way to ensure rights in a society. Lawsuits, laws and elections are a far less destructive way of settling issues. That's the kind of enforcement I was thinking of. Even if people disagree with laws in the US, they still mostly follow them and we have ways of dealing with people who won't, that don't involve just killing them.

 

I am far too tempted to post this.

 

NY City has a city wide gun ban. It has one of the highest crime rates in the US.

DC has a city wide gun ban. It has one of the highest crime rates in the US.

LA, CA has a city wide gun ban. It could easily be classified as a 3rd world country.

You can't own a gun in Mexico. It has one of the highest crime rates in the world, and is a dictatorship.

You can't own a gun in China. It is a dictatorship.

Look at what is happening in S. Africa. Gun control is a must there. The Military runs the show.

 

Maybe you should move to S. Africa. If you are white, you won't last a day there unarmed.

 

Nobody, even the congress here in America doesn't have the authority to establish national gun control. It is a right, not a priviledge. Who do you think is going to try and take them?

 

On the contrary, I own a AK-47, and my wife owns an SKS. Nobody is going to take them without getting tthe lead first.

[iNoob]

Well, have a gun isn't very good at all. Do I have to mention the various gun-related accidents that happened? Ammo is expensive anyway, so if it's only for display purposes, that's OK, but actually having to own one is too much for me. BTW, I know how to make a bomb, but I won't have lots of grenades at my household. Seems pointless.

[Generic George]

I am far too tempted to post this.

 

I'd always thought your opinions seemed to be at about the level of "T-Shirt" philosophy, but now I have proof. And thanks for Godwining the thread btw.

 

Don't suppose you ever bothered to learn enough to realize that Hitler, Stalin and Mao were massively popular in their countries. I've never been sure why guys like you think that having more guns in those countries would have some how changed something. If anything, those guns would have been used to make the abuses in those countries worse.

 

My personal pet belief is that if the US does ever really truly fall under the grip of a fascist movement, that guys like you and the NRA crowd will be the strongest backers of such a regime. Since one of the forces that such governments exploit is exactly the kind of irrational and baseless sense of persecution, that you guys treasure so much.

 

NY City has a city wide gun ban. It has one of the highest crime rates in the US.

 

Nope it isn't even close to being in the top ten most dangerous for the country. Try googling some actual crime statistics instead of just parroting your NRA stock phrases.

 

DC has a city wide gun ban. It has one of the highest crime rates in the US.

 

Well this one at least is correct, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

LA, CA has a city wide gun ban. It could easily be classified as a 3rd world country.

 

Not even in the top 20 actually. Also there are a number of cities in CA that are among the safest in the US, despite CA as a whole having extremely tight restrictions on Guns. So how does this guns=safety thing work again?

 

You can't own a gun in Mexico. It has one of the highest crime rates in the world, and is a dictatorship.

 

There are a lot worse places than mexico, hate to break it to you. Though they have gotten a lot worse in the past couple of years as the government has decided to crack down on the drug gangs, which have plenty of guns. Funny how that doesn't seem to have made them any more peaceful. Also, while Mexico was a dictatorship for many years, it hasn't been for well over a decade now. But don't let facts get in the way of your making claims.

 

You can't own a gun in China. It is a dictatorship.

 

Yeah, hate to break it to you but China has been a dictatorship for a long time. More guns wouldn't have changed that, since there were already a lot of them floating around after WWII when the commies took over.

 

Look at what is happening in S. Africa. Gun control is a must there. The Military runs the show.

 

Maybe you should move to S. Africa. If you are white, you won't last a day there unarmed.

 

No the military doesn't run the show in SA, but given your extraordinarily poor reading comprehension, I'm not surprised you're under that impression. You don't exactly seem to be very educated or knowledgeable.

 

Touch of racial paranoia there as well. Let me guess, "The Turner Diaries" are one of your favorite books?

 

Nobody, even the congress here in America doesn't have the authority to establish national gun control. It is a right, not a priviledge. Who do you think is going to try and take them?

 

On the contrary, I own a AK-47, and my wife owns an SKS. Nobody is going to take them without getting tthe lead first.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know you think you're more bad ass than Jack Bauer. Thanks for all the posturing. Why do you think it's going to impress me?

 

Once again your extraordinary ineptness at reading comprehension strikes again. Can you point to a spot where I actually said guns should be confiscated or ownership restricted? You really do need to learn to pay attention to what's written.

 

I am simply highly dubious of claims that guns = peace or that they some how magically minimize crime. If you'd ever bothered to do any research, you'd know that there are several cities in Texas which are among the most dangerous in the US and we all know what gun hating liberals Texans are.

 

Also if guns are so wonderful for maintaining peace and polite society, can you explain to me why, despite levels of gun ownership that must make the NRA jealous, Iraq and Afghanistan aren't the most peaceful societies on earth? Cause I'm just not seeing them as great places to vacation in.