Are Mormons Christians?

[djet]

This has been a question that has been receiving more and more attention these days and I've been looking at different posts by both sides and I wanted to know what the Christians and Mormons here thought about it. (If you are Atheist then please refrain from posting unless your giving an honest opinion that is relevant to the topic instead of trying to disprove either faith.) I personally am of the opinion that Mormons are not Christians due to the difference in the origins of the world according to Mormons:

 

The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they, too, shall one day become gods. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression."

 

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:

 

"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

 

Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":

 

"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."

 

The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man.

 

This is taken from http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mo...s_christian.htm which is a Christian website and of course has bias in it. If a Mormon feels this is incorrect then I will gladly listen to your argument. Now before I read that article I read a fairly convincing article from a Mormon website: http://www.fairlds.org/Anti-Mormons/Can_Mo...Christians.html

 

Now my problem with this article is the focus on the syntax of the article. Of course an article from the CRI should contain citations and such, but the article was not intended for the intense scrutiny that FAIR gave to it. The author of the Mormon article even admitted:

 

It is recognized that this article was not intended to be an exhaustive treatment of The Church of Jesus Christ. Additionally, it is realized the CRI article is only intended to address the issue of Mormons and whether or not they are Christian.

 

Thoughts?

[Maxintosh]

I think they both started from the same myth and eventually evolved into something different.

[Generic George]

Well actually, they refer to themselves as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints". Mormon was a tag hung on them by the many people who were hostile to the religion.

 

You can make a strong argument either way. But I would lean towards the "not really christian" end of things.

 

For example, Jesus is recognized as an important prophet in the Islamic religion and their end times script has him returning to earth as a muslim (love to see the christian fundamentalist's faces if that happened!). But you can hardly call Islam a "Christian" religion. Likewise, Christ doesn't really seem as important in CoLDS as Joseph Smith does, from what I know about the history and practices of the religion.

 

There was a fascinating book I read many years ago called "Kingdom of the Cults. It alternated between a dry, scholarly treaties on the history and background of what they referred to as "Cults" in America and a foaming at the mouth fundamentalist christian take on why they didn't consider groups like the Unification Church or the CoLDS to be "real" christians. It did make a strong argument though, that much of what the CoLDS believes, is incompatible with traditional Christianity.

 

Of course, Christianity started off as basically a jewish sect (which has always given me a certain WTF with regards to the long history of christian anti-semetisim) and there really isn't anything much stranger in the CoLDS history and belief, than has been present in past christian sects and off shoots and it's not like there's much if any support in the bible for most of the structure of the catholic church and their practices.

 

Besides South Park said it was the Mormons who had it right...

 

I think in much of the dichotomy stems from the fact that the history of the CoLDS is from a relatively recent and well documented time. It hasn't had the distance of millenia and lack of record keeping that helps to maintain the plausibility of biblical events.

[Maxintosh]

they refer to themselves as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints".

First of all 'latter' is spelled with two 't's. Secondly; they changed their name to that after 1838. They were originally known as the "Church of Christ". Does that sound christian to anyone?

 

Mormons believe that the Christian religion strayed away from the true Gospel after the apostles died. They are historically correct.

 

Also consider this; on page 513 of the Mormon Doctrine it states "Mormonism is Christianity; Christianity is Mormonism; they are one and the same, they are not to be distinguished from each other in the minutest detail...Mormons are true Christians."

[Superhai]

I dont think that question have an answer. Or there is no perceived correct answer in the near future. And if this topic is receiving more and more attention, some alarm bell should call very quickly. Why? I try to explain. To put this in another perspective. Why are islam or christianity not regarded as a jewish religion or sect? And to protestants and catholics consider each other as christians. A few hundred years ago they didnt, and blood had to be spilled to sort this out. And shia and sunni are in midst of it. And so on...

 

The answer is... just let it be...

[Rhapsody Guru]

Mormons believe that the Christian religion strayed away from the true Gospel after the apostles died. They are historically correct.

 

Uh... actually, you are sorely mistaken. If the so called "Total Apostasy" had occurred right after the last apostle died, then Jesus would be considered a liar since he clearly said in the scriptures, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18 - KJV "The officially recognized translation of the LDS Church"). So like what the heck? Would the son of God actually lie to his followers and to us? That is bad knowledge you have. Because of this, the Mormons are clearly not Christian. End of story.

 

 

Guru

 

P.S. Also notice that the Mormons think everything since the Total Apostasy is corrupt, yet they use the King James version of the bible... created a few hundred years BEFORE Joseph Smith "reformed" everything.

[djet]

I find it ironic that while Mormons are asking to be considered to be Christians, their very founder said this:

 

""all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt"

 

I just wonder why there wasn't anything in the Bible about Joseph Smith... I mean Christ was prophesied extensively throughout the Old Testament, why wouldn't there be one word about how the whole faith would be totally remade. I guess you could argue the same for the Reformation....

[Maxintosh]

I just wonder why there wasn't anything in the Bible about Joseph Smith... I mean Christ was prophesied extensively throughout the Old Testament

At least Joseph Smith was a real person. Jesus was a collection from stories retold hundreds and even thousands of years earlier.

 

The "Jesus" figure appears in the story of Mithras, which predates the story of Jesus by 600 years, and the Egyptian sun god Horus, had pre-dated the Jesus character by thousands of years. So as mentioned, at least Joseph Smith was a real person

[Descalzo]

Yes. We are Christians. We believe that the Atonement of Jesus Christ provides a way for us to live with God.

[djet]

The "Jesus" figure appears in the story of Mithras, which predates the story of Jesus by 600 years, and the Egyptian sun god Horus, had pre-dated the Jesus character by thousands of years. So as mentioned, at least Joseph Smith was a real person

 

I'm sorry, but are you really claiming that the story of Mithras is the same as of Jesus? For one I explicitly said in the topic NOT to post about the validity of either religion. Secondly, Mithras was not born of a virgin like some claim, but out of solid rock. The other similarity that I'm assuming your claiming with the story of Mithras is how shepherds attended his birth. However, if you examine the traditions of Mithraites, you see that Mithras was created BEFORE humanity. Thus, the only similarity between the two is their birthdate. (Source: http://christopherbutler.wordpress.com/200...mithras-redux/)

[Maxintosh]

are you really claiming that the story of Mithras is the same as of Jesus?

ABSOLUTELY! As is the story of Buddha and Horus. Study your history and you will see that is was common place back then to take a popular story, change one or two elements - and then create a new story. Clearly this is where the story of Jesus came from. The Orthodox Christian hierarchy is practically identical to the Mithraic version. Virtually all of the elements of the Orthodox Christian rituals (wafer, doxology, water baptism and alter) were adopted from the Mithra and earlier pagan religions. Let's see what they took from other stories to create the story of Jesus:

 

 

• Next to the god Ormuzd, Mithra held the highest rank among the gods of ancient Persia. Next to God, Jesus holds the next highest rank.

• Mithra was born on December 25th as an offspring of the Sun.

• Both had virgin births.

• He was represented as a beautiful youth and a mediator.

• He was considered a great traveling teacher.

• He had twelve companions (Jesus had twelve disciples).

• Mithra was called "the good shepherd,” "the way, the truth and the light,” “redeemer,” “savior,” “Messiah."

• He was identified with both the lion and the lamb.

• Could also redeem the souls of the dead into heaven.

• Ceremonies included a sort of baptism to remove sins, anointing, and a sacred meal of bread and water, while a consecrated wine, believed to possess wonderful power.

• The mysteries of Mithras, which fell in the spring equinox, were famous even among the many Roman festivals, much like Easter is today among christians.

• Purified themselves by baptism.

• Their conceptions of the world and of the destiny of man were very similar.

• They both believed in the existence of a Heaven inhabited by beatified ones, situated in the upper regions, and of a Hell, peopled by demons, situated in the bowels of the earth.

• They both placed a flood at the beginning of history.

• Both performed the same exact miracles.

• They both believed in the immortality of the soul, in a last judgment, and in a resurrection of the dead.

• They both had disciples which formed an organized church, with a developed hierarchy.

• They both possessed the ideas of Mediation, Atonement, and a Savior, who is human and yet divine, and not only the idea, but a doctrine of the future life.

• They both had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

• They were both buried in a tomb and after three days they both rose again. Their resurrection was (is) celebrated every year.

• They both had the sacred day of Sunday, "the Lord's Day."

• "I am a star which goes with thee and shines out of the depths." - Mithraic saying" - I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star." - Jesus, (Rev. 22:16)

• Both were believed to be mankind's savior.

• Both were known as the Light of the world.

 

 

Now let's look at Buddha (who also preceded the story of Jesus) to see eerie similarities between Buddha and then afterward *cough* Jesus...

• Both Buddha and Jesus were baptized in the presence of the "spirit" of G--d. (De Bunsen, p. 45; Matthew 3:16.)
   
  
• Both went to their temples at the age of twelve, where they are said to have astonished all with their wisdom. (Ibid., p. 37; Luke 2:41--48.)
   
  
• Both supposedly fasted in solitude for a long time: Buddha for forty--seven days and Jesus for forty. (Arthur Lillie, Buddha and Early Buddhism (London, 1881), p. 100, Matthew 4:2.)
   
  
• At the conclusion of their fasts, they both wandered to a fig tree. (Hans Joachim Schoeps, An Intelligent Person's Guide to the Religions of Mankind (London, 1967), p. 167; Matthew 21:18--19.)
   
  
• Both were about the same age when they began their public ministry:
  "When he [Buddha] went again to the garden he saw a monk who was calm, tranquil, self--possessed, serene, and dignified. The prince, determined to become such a monk, was led to make the great renunciation. At the time he was twenty--nine years of age...". (Encyclopedia Americana (New York: Rand McNally and Co., 1963), vol. 4, p. 672.)
  "Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age" (Luke 3:23).
   
  
• Both were tempted by the "devil" at the beginning of their ministry:
  To Buddha, he said: "Go not forth to adopt a religious life but return to your kingdom, and in seven days you shall become emperor of the world, riding over the four continents." (Moncure D. Conway, The Sacred Anthology (London, 1874), p. 173.)
  To Jesus, he said: "All these [kingdoms of the world] I will give you, if you fall down and worship me" (Matthew 4:9).
   
  
• Buddha answered the "devil": "Get you away from me." (De Bunsen, p.38)
  Jesus responded: "...begone, Satan!" (Matthew 4:10).
   
  
• Both experienced the "supernatural" after the "devil" left:
  For Buddha: "The skies rained flowers, and delicious odors prevailed [in] the air." (Ibid.)
  For Jesus: "angels came and ministered to him" (Matthew 4:11).
   
  
• The multitudes required a sign from both in order that they might believe. (Muller, Science, p. 27; Matthew 16:1.)
   
  
• Both strove to establish a kingdom of heaven on earth. (Beal, p. x; Matthew 4:17.)
   
  
• Buddha "represented himself as a mere link in a long chain of enlightened teachers." (Muller, Science, p. 140.)
  Jesus said: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law, and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17).
   
  
• According to the Somadeva (a Buddhist holy book), a Buddhist ascetic's eye once offended him, so he plucked it out and cast it away. (Ibid., p. 245)
  Jesus said: "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, and throw it away;" (Matthew 5:29).
   
  
• "Buddha taught that the motive of all our actions should be pity or love of our neighbor." (Ibid., p. 249)
  Jesus taught: "...love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44).
   
  
• Buddha said: "Hide your good deeds, and confess before the world the sins you have committed." (Ibid., p.28)
  Jesus said: "Beware of practicing your piety before men to be seen by them;" (Matthew 6:1) and "Therefore confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed..." (James 5:16).
   
  
• Both are said to have known the thoughts of others:
  "By directing his mind to the thoughts of others, [Buddha] can know the thoughts of all beings." (R. Spence Hardy, The Legends and Theories of the Buddhists Compared with History and Science (London, 1866), p. 181.)
  "But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said: `Why do you think evil in your hearts?' " (Matthew 9:4).
   
  
• After "healing" a man born blind, Buddha said: "The disease of this man originates in his sinful actions in former times." (Prof. Max Muller, ed., Sacred Books of the East (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1879--1910), vol. 21, p. 129f.)
  "As [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his disciples said to him: `Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?' " (John 9:1--2).
   
  
• Both were itinerant preachers with a close group of trustees within a larger group of disciples. (James Hastings, ed., Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (New York: Edinburgh T. & T. Clark, 1918), vol. 6, p. 883; Matthew 26:20.)
   
  
• Both demanded that their disciples renounce all worldly possessions. (Hardy, Monachism, p. 6; Luke 14:33.)
  "The number of the disciples rapidly increased, and Gautama sent forth his monks on missionary tours hither and thither, bidding them wander everywhere, preaching the doctrine, and teaching men to order their lives with self--restraint, simplicity, and charity." (Hastings, vol. 6, p.883)
  "And [Jesus] called to him the twelve [apostles], and began to send them out two by two.So they went out and preached that men should repent" (Mark 6:7, 12).
   
  
• Both had a disciple who "walked" on water:
  To convert skeptical villagers, Buddha showed them his disciple walking across a river without sinking. (Lillie, p. 140)
  "He said: `Come.' So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus, but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out: `Lord, save me!' " (Matthew 14:29--30).
   
  
• "One day Ananda, the disciple of Buddha, after a long walk in the country, meets with Matangi, a woman of the low caste of the Kandalas, near a well, and asks her for some water. She tells him what she is, and that she must not come near him. But he replies: `My sister, I ask not for your caste or your family, I ask only for a drought of water. She afterwards became a disciple of Buddha." (Muller, Science, p. 243)
  "There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her: `Give me a drink.' For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. The Samaritan woman said to him: `How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?' For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans" (John 4:7--9).
   
  
• Each repeated a question three times:
  "The Buddha next addressed the bhikkhus and requested them three times to ask him if they had any doubt or question that they wished clarified, but they all remained silent." (Encyclopedia Britannica (New York: William and Helen Benton, 1974), vol. 2, p. 373.)
  "[Jesus] said to him the third time: `Simon, son of John, do you love me?' Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time: `Do you love me?'" (John 21:17).
   
  
• Both received similar receptions:
  "The people swept the pathway, the gods strewed flowers on the pathway and branches of the coral tree, the men bore branches of all manner of trees, and the Bodhisattva Sumedha spread his garments in the mire, [and] men and gods shouted: `All hail.' " (Hardy, Legends, p.134)
  "And they brought the colt to Jesus, and threw their garments on it; and he sat on it. And many spread their garments on the road, and others spread leafy branches which they had cut from the fields" (Mark 11:7--8).
   
  
• Both had an archival:
  "[Buddha's] chief rival was Devadatta, a cousin of the Buddha, who is represented as being jealous of his influence and popularity, and as repeatedly seeking to compass his death." (Hastings, vol. 6, p.883)
  "While [Jesus] was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people. Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying: `The one I shall kiss is the man; seize him!' And he came up to Jesus at once, and said: `Hail, Master!' And he kissed him" (Matthew 26:47--49).
   
  
• Before his death, Buddha said to his disciple: "Ananda, when I am gone, you must not think there is no Buddha; the discourses I have delivered, and the precepts I have enjoined, must be my successors, or representatives, and be to you as Buddha." (Hardy, Eastern Monachism (London, 1860), p. 230.)
  Before his "ascension," Jesus said to his disciples: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and, lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age" (Matthew 28:19--20).
   
  
• When Buddha died: "The coverings of [his] body unrolled themselves, and the lid of his coffin was opened by supernatural powers." (De Bunsen, p. 49.)
  When Jesus died: "And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone, and sat upon it" (Matthew 28:2).
   
  
• "In the year 217 B.C. Buddhist missionaries were imprisoned for preaching; but an angel came and opened the prison door, and liberated them." (Thomas Thornton, A History of China from the Earliest Records to the Treaty with Great Britain in 1842 (London, 1844), vol. 1, p. 341.)
  "They arrested the apostles and put them in the common prison. But at night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out" (Acts 5:18--19).
   
  
• Both men's disciples are said to have been miracle workers. (Maria L. Child, The Progress of Religious Ideas Through Successive Ages (New York, 1855)vol. 1, p. 229, Acts 3:6--8.)
  

Maybe you shouldn't be asking if mormons are christian... maybe you should be asking if christians are Buddhist. LOL

 

 

The story of Horus also contributed the following to the story of Jesus:

 

• Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a manger.

• His birth was being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

• His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").

• He was of royal descent.

• At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple.

• A aget 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.

• Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.

• He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").

• He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.

• Horus walked on water.

• His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."

• He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."

• Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

• He was crucified between two thieves.

• He was buried for three days in a tomb, and then resurrected.

• He was also called the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.

• Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."

• Horus fed thousands (5000 to be exact) with just a few loaves of bread.

• Horus was called "the KRST," (pronounced Christ) or "Anointed One."

• He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys") and the Lamb.

 

 

I find it simply astonishing that religions instruct their followers to 'read the bible' - but they never tell their followers to learn the history of the contents of the bible. Weird. Now one or two similarities I can see, but when you can comprise a long, long list as shown above, from more than one other PRECEDING story, that speaks volumes to the open minded person

[justvisiting]

ABSOLUTELY! As is the story of Buddha and Horus. Study your history and you will see that is was common place back then to take a popular story, change one or two elements - and then create a new story. Clearly this is where the story of Jesus came from. The Orthodox Christian hierarchy is practically identical to the Mithraic version. Virtually all of the elements of the Orthodox Christian rituals (wafer, doxology, water baptism and alter) were adopted from the Mithra and earlier pagan religions. ...

 

 

Looks like someone watched the zeitgeist movie

[Maxintosh]

The movies OK but I've known about this stuff for 20-30 years now. Check out some of Joseph Campbells books (or the PBS series), they document it all in much greater detail

[djet]

So is your point here that Christians are ignorant while you are not?

[brainbone]

So is your point here that Christians are ignorant while you are not?

 

I think it could certainly be argued that the majority of Christians are ignorant of the relation their own religious texts/stories have with that of others throughout history. More concerning is that the majority would also choose to stay ignorant of this when presented with an opportunity to learn more about this history and origins of their religion, rejecting any alternate views out of hand.

[djet]

I completely agree with you Brain, but I was trying to point out Max was pointing out the flaws Christianity in a post where I specifically asked people not to post about the validity of either religion.

[Maxintosh]

I specifically asked people not to post about the validity of either religion.

My post clearly stayed away from showing how they are valid, in-fact it proved how they are invalid. Funny how that worked out

[MGJulius]

It depends on what requisites do you call someone a "christian"

 

If you define a christian as someone who believes that Jesus Christ as a Lord and Savior...then I believe yes

 

I have a friend who is a Mormon (Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and believes in Jesus...

 

Oh and by Mormon are you saying fundamentalists or members of aforementioned religion?

[Rhapsody Guru]

It depends on what requisites do you call someone a "christian"

 

If you define a christian as someone who believes that Jesus Christ as a Lord and Savior...then I believe yes

 

I have a friend who is a Mormon (Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and believes in Jesus...

 

Oh and by Mormon are you saying fundamentalists or members of aforementioned religion?

 

Actually, that is not all... A Christian is defined as believing in the Trinity or the ideology of three persons in one god (The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). The Mormons, sadly do not believe in the Trinity, an essential building block to Christianity.

 

 

Guru

[aduffbrew]

Actually, that is not all... A Christian is defined as believing in the Trinity or the ideology of three persons in one god (The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). The Mormons, sadly do not believe in the Trinity, an essential building block to Christianity.

Guru

Excuse me? An who got to decide this "essential building block of Christianity?" Oh yeah... the trinity worshippers. Now that's an unexpected shock! There have been THOUSANDS of sects from the inception of the Christian movement down to our modern day that haven't embraced such a trinity. In fact, the oldest surviving Christian texts are gnostic in nature and certainly don't embrace this vision on the Trinity. We have two hundred years of Christian writings before it was even ever mentioned! I'm not endorsing Mormon theology but they don't need this narrow definition to call themselves Christian.

 

EVERY Christian has their own personal view of the Christ built on a cultivated view unique to their denomination.. sure you can find some common threads running through the various belief systems of ALL the myriads of Christian faiths today but you aren't going to find them all universally. The lowest common denominator is this:

 

Christian (noun): a person who has received Christian Baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

 

You may want to argue what constitutes a Christian baptism, the nature of Jesus, or his teachings... people have been doing that for almost 2000 years now... and surprise surprise... look at all the different Christian demoninations there are!

 

So Mormons aren't of the modern mainstream Christian bent... so what? Ask any of them, and they're proud of that fact! Nobody cares but those wanting to find something divisive. I mean seriously, people! If you start wacking every faith that doesn't match your version of Christ off the Christianity Tree, what you're left with will be a pole in the ground with one single leaf... you.

 

What I would really like to ask is why any of you care? Do they really frighten you that badly? It can't be that they offend you... at most you might find some aspects of Mormon dogma to be "ludicrous" but this isn't the age of Inquisition now is it? When it comes to faith, we all live in glass houses. I think this is one rock nobody should be throwing around.

[ran22]

Guys

B4 anything else we should know what it meant to be a christian. any group can freely say that he or she is a christian. some will say im a christian coz my parents are, some guys will say im not muslim so therefore im a christian, i always go to church every sunday, i pray alot i have my own bible with different version, i belong to a baptist church are this a proof that u are. Sadly no...

THIS IS WHAT THE WORLD VIEW IS TRYING TO SAY.....

 

Christian means having a PERSONAL reltionship with Christ w/c result to a change life.

[apowerr]

Mormons are Christians, albeit loose ones. Funny how a lot of you can recognize how silly and clearly delusional Mormon beliefs are, but not others...

[aduffbrew]

Mormons are Christians, albeit loose ones. Funny how a lot of you can recognize how silly and clearly delusional Mormon beliefs are, but not others...

Silly and delusional? *laugh* No Mormon thinks that, I am sure... just like no Catholic thinks that of their church... and so on... but ask any Christian about someone else's religion and oh my hell. Don't you think there is enough division in the world? They aren't going to change to suit you and you aren't going to change to suit them. Why don't we call this a draw and move on already.

[rhythmxii]

I think all people who believe that Christ is the son of God and accept him as a saviour is a Christian, only another kind of Christian...

 

There are Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians...

[cain.]

WHat is the definition of "Christian"?