suggestion: sticky-fy links to ESR's "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way"

[onixwj]

Please consider drawing users' attention to Eric S. Raymond's excellent essay, "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way" by adding a link to it, perhaps along with a friendly request to look it over, as a sticky post in the technical forums.

 

This could really help facilitate the exchange of information. Some people don't stop to consider, for instance, that many of us will scan the list of topics and never stop to read those with useless subject/titles like "help" or "I can't do it".

[Metrogirl]

What an excellent article! Thanks for the suggestion!

 

The problem is that it's rather wordy, and I think a lot of the users here may not even bother trawling through it. If they can't read a list of Google hits they probably won't read a five-page article. What I might do is condense it to a few salient points and post a link or have it stickied into the forum. Heaven knows I sympathise with most of the content! So many times some member has asked a question to which I don't know the answer so I fire up Google and there is the answer staring at me from the first page. If I have time, I paraphrase the answer into simple terms for them. If I have less time I post the link. If I'm short of time I just go away and they go clueless. The worst case is when I help someone and they demand more info or get snitchy. This article says it all.

 

I know most of the staff, like me, only bother to look at posts entitled "Help me!" and "It doesn't work!" when we've looked at everything else and we're bored.

 

Thanks again,

-s-

 

Edit - I did as I suggested above and wrote a condensed version which I've stickied in the installation forum, with a link to the site you suggested. A lot of people have viewed it already which is good. Thanks so much, onixwj, for the suggestion, I just hope people take note and act accordingly.

[onixwj]

The problem is that it's rather wordy, and I think a lot of the users here may not even bother trawling through it.

If you do this right, that would be their problem, not yours. I suggested it specifically for the technical forums. Geeks are used to "wordy" stuff. If you're installing Mac OS on Intel hardware in 2006, you'd better be ready to read.

 

If they can't read a list of Google hits they probably won't read a five-page article.

...and then they probably won't get any help, and the rest of us will feel no guilt in ridiculing or ignoring them.

 

What I might do is condense it to a few salient points and post a link or have it stickied into the forum.

Cool. If you do, please be sure to link to the original document. Some people, like this person, will read it -- and most likely benefit from it.

 

Heaven knows I sympathise with most of the content!

These are problems that have been around since AOL started putting AOLosers on the Internet. The quality of discussions on Usenet dropped, and people got really tired of the sort of {censored} that the essay tries to prevent.

 

So many times some member has asked a question to which I don't know the answer so I fire up Google and there is the answer staring at me from the first page. If I have time, I paraphrase the answer into simple terms for them. If I have less time I post the link. If I'm short of time I just go away and they go clueless. The worst case is when I help someone and they demand more info or get snitchy.

f*** 'em. [edit: What the hell? The board censored "f***". It's just a word!] Consider this: if you spend your time trying to help people who don't bother to attempt to help themselves, you are left with less time to work on the good questions -- the ones that need an expert's response. Better to give them a quick "RTFM" and let them come back when they're ready to not waste your time while you are trying to help them. You can only do so much hand-holding.

 

This article says it all.

Yep. Its author, Eric S. Raymond, is one of the fathers of Free Software movement. He's a legend in the class of Linus and Richard Stallman. Any UNIX or Linux geek knows who he is. His most famous writing is The Cathedral and the Bazaar -- good stuff.

 

You do realize that the Apple world is being infiltrated by us Unix geeks, right? Starting with v.10 of their operating system, Apple's computers went from a cute machines for designers and grandmas to the uber-hacker's dream machines. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's essentially true. Rock-solid OS underneath, world-class GUI on top. In 10 years, we probably won't have to support that half-assed OS from the criminal monopoly in Redmond when we go home to visit mom and dad anymore. It's happening.

 

I know most of the staff, like me, only look at posts entitled "Help me!" and "It doesn't work!" when we've looked at everything else and we're bored.

Maybe you could sequester those posts to a lusers area with a note that says something like, "Look, we don't intend to be mean or to offend you, but you are wasting our time and yours. We know you're probably not aware of this, and that's why we're telling you. Here are some links to information that you should read first, and here's a link to the key to asking questions without getting dumped here in babyville. When you're ready, please come back and join the discussion -- we'd be glad to have you."

 

The board would be much more useful if we could cut down on the {censored}, no?

 

Aside: why are these damned blinky smiley things all over the place? Is this kindergarten or what? Sheesh.

[Metrogirl]

OK, I'll resist the temptation to put a smiley in here. I think perhaps you were composing your reply before I edited the last paragraph into my original post after spending considerable time following your suggestion, including providing the link to the original article and giving you credit for finding it.

 

We have all sorts of users here; unfortunately they are not all as technical as you and I. Yes, I have over ten years' Unix experience. I know there is a lot to be said for taking a hard line with people who are demanding, incompetent or just plain thick, and believe me, I do sometimes. But generally it's not my style and it's not the style of this forum. We cater for everyone and inevitably it will include those less gifted. For a lot of people this forum offers a transition from newbie to geek which is quite gratifying to see. I'm personally happy to have helped them make that progress since the strictly technical fora which I frequent would be totally intimidating to many of our users. We are not in the business of being intimidating or superior so I don't mind being Mr Niceguy (or more correctly Miss Niceguy) with people who are genuinely confused and seeking help. They are welcome here too and the more technical users steer round them and discuss their stuff in other threads. Smileys have their place in lightening the mood and conveying a less formidable tone in what can be a very daunting arena. For some new OSX users this is indeed a form of kindergarten and we are their mentors.

[onixwj]

Right on. That was fast. I was, indeed, composing my reply while you edited the last paragraph. I just read your summary and think it's a fine one.

 

Some nit-picky but constructive criticism:

• ESR's essay is just a page, not a whole site, and
  
• it's not really focused on newsgroups (it's not focussed on anything). For example, it says, "Before asking a technical question by e-mail, or in a newsgroup, or on a website chat board," and also mentions IRC.
  
• 3rd-last paragraph: s/they're/they've/