President Bush

[Swad]

I thought it might be a good idea to have a thoughtful discussion about President Bush. More specifically I'd like to see how our international friends view President Bush. But if you're an American, feel free to chime in as well.

 

As always, be respectful and back up what you say with fact. Many people attack him for lack of nuance in argumentation - make sure you're not guilty of it as well.

[Bug]

The Katrina video says it all. It shows they've been lying and picking scapegoats during the last 6 months over the whole disaster response. It's like Bush and the whole executive branch live in Fantasy Land. As an American, I'm very disappointed in Bush. And as of yesterday, his approval rating is down to 34 percent. And the Katrina video story was breaking after those numbers. So I'm not the only one.

[Hagar]

Jumpin' Jimini, Mashugly, you wanna get us closed down again? If there's one thing thats worse than the DMCA then it must be the patriot act (actually, thats 2 things) you don't want us to be accused of anti-american activities do you Well, being in Europe I wouldn't really know... (yes, I am kidding)

 

There are a number of memorable G.W. moments in my life:

 

The scene where he sits in the classroom with the book upside down on 9/11 is unforgettable, particularly as portrayed in "Farenheit 9/11":

An aide whispers in his ear - "Mr. President, The nation is under attack" & then he sits there with his book upside down for another 6 minutes...

 

A moment that was more poignant for me personally was watching one of his pre- gulf war II speeches of the "you're either with us or against us" variety with my father, who is old enough to have lived through 5 years of Nazi occupation..

The old man sighed & shook his head, and said: "Its just like seeing Hitler all over again"

 

The thing that gets me is that this affects the entire world.. Many nations elect idiots from time to time, but when the U.S. does it, the consequences cost lives all over the planet. It seems neither the U.S. electorate nor any international political pressure can affect the actions of this man and his gang of cronies.

 

We live in interesting times indeed..

[cyrana]

I love the bits I saw edited on the Daily Show last night. With Iraq only supposing to cost us $1.7B. LOL.

[OryHara]

I have several single words that describe Bush. Lets give it a try.

 

Nazi, Terrorist, Greedy, Retarded, Freedom Hater, Dictator.

 

Nazi: Self explanatory. Put a picture of him standing at the podium, then one of Hitler, and put them side-by-side. See any similarities?

 

Terrorist: Kills people and takes their oil. Send young men off to die for his own greed. Sends CIA officials to bomb forign buildings.

 

Greedy: Loves oil. Oil Tycoon. Loves to wollow around in it like a pig.

 

Freedom Hater: USA Patriot Act, the DMCA is still here, the cover ups, phone tapping laws, the law that doesn't exist about why you have to show ID at an Airport.

 

Dictator: See #1.

Or my favorite Nazi-Terrorist-Swine-{censored}. See all of the above.

[iMaurice]

he's a horrible president but we're not stuck with karry so i dont complain

[jbjonas]

I will kindly avoid voicing my opinion of Bush, as it is not very flattering.

[scousi]

Terrorist: Kills people and takes their oil. Send young men off to die for his own greed. Sends CIA officials to bomb forign buildings.

 

Well, he never succeeded in taking the oil after spending $400 Billion trying to. This whole "war on terror" is abused to justify everything. He's trashing the constitution. What constitutes a "Terrorist" has never been defined by anyone in the legal sense! To be a "criminal" you have to a) commit a crime and be found guilty of a crime in a court of law.

 

1) Wiretaps: I really doubt that terrorists are using conventional phones to communicate. Maybe Bush is using it to spy on political opponents. Even the Telcos have provided all their CDR's (Call detail records) without their customers being aware.

 

2) How can he hold people in Guantanamo perpetually without charging them for a crime? If they are terrorists - fine. But prove it like any other crime.

 

3) Bin Laden is still alive and well. No one has been pusnished for Sept 11 except for thousands of innocent "collateral dammage" victims.

 

4) He has relationships with Jack Abramoff, Tom Delay , Ken Lay , Bin Laddens and other criminals.

 

5) He has made terrorism a billion dollar business. Guess who gets the money.

 

I'm not an American and I have always defended their ideas (before Bush came along) to my left leaning friends and family. What most disapoints me of Americans right now is that they elected him a second time. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" or as Dubya says it "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ... you can't get fooled again"

 

Here's some Bush related humor.

 

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shoc...aygirlenron.htm

 

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm

 

http://bushspeaks.com/

[lane]

he's a horrible president but we're not stuck with karry so i dont complain

...... Why bother arguing when you can't even spell .......

 

 

Bush... lets just say he lied and my friends died...

[mortis]

Mmmmmmm.

 

as someone said before, I am not sure I should speak of anybody, if I have nothing good to say about him.

 

Being a frequent traveler to USA, and having lived there for some time ( though I am now happilly back in my own SouthAm country), I can only say that during the last years I have only noticed an increase in general paranoia in that country. People distrust the rest of the world as they never did.

And whats more incredible, there has been an amazing loss in freedom in every sense. Everything seems controlled and under control. .

More than Hitler´s Nazi Germany, it looks a lot like Orwell´s Big Brother.

 

 

About terrorism: this so called "War on Terror" (oh yes, with nice big titles in every importatnt news channel) has done nothing so far but kill thousands of inocents on both sides, and not only hasn´t stopped terrorism, but has increased hatred for USA (right now a synonym for Bush arround the world, since you re-elected him, to the astonishment of the rest of the world!) in many countries, and has probably increased terrorist acts....

 

Fight terrorism with justice, not blood (blood is what terrorists use)

 

If you still have a democracy, get rid of those bloody liars (and I don´t mean bloody as the Brits do, but bloddy as having their hands full of innocents blood).

[domino]

Bush has thoughts? That means he can think? No comment...

 

*Domino resists using his Smiley Powers

[munky]

the man is an imbecile, a bumbling, nonsense-talking buffoon, a moron, an idiot. nostradamus once predicted that at the turn of the new millenium, the village idiot will take power. how true!

 

i have a 3-day old son who would make a better president.

 

i dont think he's actually evil per se, because i dont really think he's that bright. i think he is cold, unfeeling, manipulative (as well as manipulated) and very, very greedy and single-minded.

 

he thinks he can police the world, and he's wrong. pax americana will fail, just as pax romana did.

[Bug]

But I'm IN Pax America!!

 

Hey, on a slightly off topic subject, I watched this BBC special called 'The Root of All Evil'. It's about religion and science, how it's basically becoming a very polarized subject where your either on one side or the other. The reason I bring it up is that they interview one of the Christian Right powerhouse preachers with ties to Bush in it. The host says the service he just attended (~10,000 people at it!) felt something like Nuremberg and the preacher's like 'Well, I don't know what this Nuremberg is but our service is like a rock concert.". I find it amazing how people with such little historical and situational knowledge get in positions like that, having such sheer control over so many people.

 

And this video about Katrina, come on man! The people he's put in charge, the ones he's supposed to listen to more because they are his HAND PICKED EXPERTS, are telling him how screwed we are but he pretty much just sat there like a rock without asking any questions or for details. Mr. Brown, who was painted as this careless, aloof, dinner party attending slob, is basically saying before it even happened 'We need everything, we need national support, the Dome's a nightmare waiting to happen, we have no idea how our people will react in a catastrophe'. You know what, I bet he said 'screw this, I can't get anything done, Nobody's listening, Let's go to dinner at the most expensive place on Dubya's tab since I'm going to get fired'. Wonder who taped that video conference...

 

So regardless of what we think of the war, what we think of the environment, international relations, science and technology, pollution, economy, education, healthcare, or whatever other topics are the ones you feel most important, in this VIDEO TAPED situation he got the right information, failed to act, lied about it, and now is caught red handed. Things they said that they didn't know until days later are clearly shown to be lies, with the information about the flooding, the breaches, the medical and food/water, and the rescue situation were all known before the hurricane hit. And they blamed people who were clearly prepared and knowledgeable about the situation for the mistakes where it's clearly evident the Executive Branch of the government failed and tried to cover it up.

 

Sorry for the rant, it's 4am here and this stuff gets me ornery.

[OryHara]

pax americana will fail, just as pax romana did.

 

I've been saying this for 10 damn years.

 

Edited March 3, 2006 by OryHara

[Colonel]

i like bush

[Aurora]

I voted for him and would do it again...

 

 

 

*ducks*

[39thRonin]

The Katrina video says it all. It shows they've been lying and picking scapegoats during the last 6 months over the whole disaster response. It's like Bush and the whole executive branch live in Fantasy Land. As an American, I'm very disappointed in Bush. And as of yesterday, his approval rating is down to 34 percent. And the Katrina video story was breaking after those numbers. So I'm not the only one.

 

;RANT ON

 

Oh please, for God's sake... Use your mind! Use Google! Read the Constitution! The Federal Government CANNOT trapse into ANY state without the specific approval and request of that state. This request did not come from the state until AFTER Katrina. The state, it's own emergency management infrastructure, the state's National Guard, and the state's first responders (Police, Fire, etc.) are responsible for the outcome of Katrina. You want to see a picture? Look at the over 1000 school buses left to flood in New Orleans rather than evacuting people - WHO HAD 3 DAYS NOTICE!

 

Contrast the BS that happened in NO versus what happens in Florida EVERY YEAR and you will see the difference between a state that takes weather seriously, evacutates - and more importantly ORDERS the evacuation of people well in advance, and a state that is a total mess from the Governor on down to the Mayor of NO.

 

Please try to NOT be led around by your nose by the mainstream (and totally USELESS) media. Do your own homework, and draw your own conclusions. Bush lying? How? He followed the f***ing laws of this country! If you don't like the laws - then work within the system to change them. All I can say is to always remember that whenever you give power to the Feds - you NEVER get it back...

 

/RANT OFF

[39thRonin]

the man is an imbecile, a bumbling, nonsense-talking buffoon, a moron, an idiot. nostradamus once predicted that at the turn of the new millenium, the village idiot will take power. how true!

 

i have a 3-day old son who would make a better president.

 

i dont think he's actually evil per se, because i dont really think he's that bright. i think he is cold, unfeeling, manipulative (as well as manipulated) and very, very greedy and single-minded.

 

he thinks he can police the world, and he's wrong. pax americana will fail, just as pax romana did.

 

Hmmm, another koolaid drinker...

 

President Bush is a decent, good man. He is not flashy, he stumbles over words, and he is not driven by polls - but by what he must do according to our Consitution. I'll take an honest man like him over a lying scumbag like clinton any day of the week. Sure clinton looked pretty, sure he could say all the right things, but he was and is a proven liar.

 

If America does not police the world, who will? There is evil in this world and someone has to stand up to it. The UN? That is a joke. We'll all be dead from iranian nukes or the hoards of muslim extremists in europe before those worthless bags of {censored} do anything. If you are living in that socalist "utopia" that is Europe today, I'll stick with my "dumb" President rather than your 15-20% unemployment any day.

 

BTW, if Pax Americana is so f***ing bad, why do all these GD foreigners keep coming here? Here, I'll trade you 12 million illegal mexican immigrants for, well, your OSX box... Better yet - stay right where you are and leave us decadent, lazy, good for nothing Americans ALONE! In return, we'll stop cutting checks to all your countries, keep our military at home, and only send the occational tourist into your countries. Sound better?

[39thRonin]

...

So regardless of what we think of the war, what we think of the environment, international relations, science and technology, pollution, economy, education, healthcare, or whatever other topics are the ones you feel most important, in this VIDEO TAPED situation he got the right information, failed to act, lied about it, and now is caught red handed. Things they said that they didn't know until days later are clearly shown to be lies, with the information about the flooding, the breaches, the medical and food/water, and the rescue situation were all known before the hurricane hit. And they blamed people who were clearly prepared and knowledgeable about the situation for the mistakes where it's clearly evident the Executive Branch of the government failed and tried to cover it up.

 

Ah, hate to burst your bubble, but did you happen to miss the taped phone call from the Governor of Louisiana to President Bush telling him that the levees had NOT been breached? You need a few lessons in basic civics and government. The Executive branch does not run this country in a vaccuum. It is NOT responsible for the weather or responses to the weather. Those are simply lies told by liberals and the mainstram media. Do your own research. You will find a little law called Posse Commitatis (sp?) that PREVENTS the Federal Government from taking ANY action in a state without that state's specific request and authorization. You may also find that in virtually EVERY states' emergency management plans, the Feds are called in AS NEEDED. They are in NO way the first line of defense, or prevension, or recovery.

 

In virtually every state's emergency plan (I know because I helped write two of them) you will find that the State's resources are used FIRST. Why do you think those schmucks in your state capitol keep taking taxes from you? That's what you are paying for - Police, Firemen, Emergency Management, etc. None of those people work for the President - they ALL report to their local or state government.

[39thRonin]

Being a frequent traveler to USA, and having lived there for some time ( though I am now happilly back in my own SouthAm country), I can only say that during the last years I have only noticed an increase in general paranoia in that country. People distrust the rest of the world as they never did.

And whats more incredible, there has been an amazing loss in freedom in every sense. Everything seems controlled and under control. .

More than Hitler´s Nazi Germany, it looks a lot like Orwell´s Big Brother.

About terrorism: this so called "War on Terror" (oh yes, with nice big titles in every importatnt news channel) has done nothing so far but kill thousands of inocents on both sides, and not only hasn´t stopped terrorism, but has increased hatred for USA (right now a synonym for Bush arround the world, since you re-elected him, to the astonishment of the rest of the world!) in many countries, and has probably increased terrorist acts....

 

Fight terrorism with justice, not blood (blood is what terrorists use)

 

If you still have a democracy, get rid of those bloody liars (and I don´t mean bloody as the Brits do, but bloddy as having their hands full of innocents blood).

 

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, your ignorance is, well, simply astounding. Loss of Freedom? Where exactly where you staying? San Quentin?

 

Paranoid? Well, it may seem that way to you, but we lost 3000 people on 9/11 and don't intend to lose anyone else.

 

Nazis? Big Brother? On what possible basis can you make such a comparison? I could name at least 100 countries with killing fields so vast that plants refuse to grow there - Cambodia, Viet Nam, Russia, China... The people who committed those autrocities were not Americans.

 

Hate the US? Fine. Cool with me. Stay in your own countries - we'll stop sending the checks (you might want to check out the foriegn aid provided to your country) and providing protection.

 

I just got back two weeks ago from a capitol city in central america. On every street corner was a private security guard (armed to the teeth) because crime was so out of control, and the police were so corrupt that hotels, shopping centers, banks, and resturants had to hire their own "police" to keep their patrons safe.

 

Oh, and BTW, you all just keep thinking that terrorism is happening because of President Bush. When he is long gone and the islamofacists are burning your cities to the ground (France, Spain, London, Phillipines, etc - all since 9/11) keep talking about "Justice" OK?

 

I have several single words that describe Bush. Lets give it a try.

 

Nazi, Terrorist, Greedy, Retarded, Freedom Hater, Dictator.

 

Nazi: Self explanatory. Put a picture of him standing at the podium, then one of Hitler, and put them side-by-side. See any similarities?

 

Terrorist: Kills people and takes their oil. Send young men off to die for his own greed. Sends CIA officials to bomb forign buildings.

 

Greedy: Loves oil. Oil Tycoon. Loves to wollow around in it like a pig.

 

Freedom Hater: USA Patriot Act, the DMCA is still here, the cover ups, phone tapping laws, the law that doesn't exist about why you have to show ID at an Airport.

 

Dictator: See #1.

Or my favorite Nazi-Terrorist-Swine-{censored}. See all of the above.

 

 

Ignornace is bliss in your world isn't it?

 

I have seldom seen someone who spouts the media line and the liberal line so well. You really need to look into employment with one of those establishments.

 

Nazi? Well, there is an oft-quoted saw about arguments. The first person to brings up Nazis loses. You Lose...

 

Greedy? Hmmm, are we a bit envious? Might be nice to be able to buy whatever one needs or wants...

 

Terrorist? Takes oil? Well, the last time I filled up it was not free. One would expect that if we were getting all this "free" oil that it would cost less. Who knew?

 

President Bush takes alot of heat - some of it justified. But he is NONE of the labels your left-wing talking points has you spewing. Try a bit of knowledge, try a bit of reality for a change....

[Aurora]

Consider this: we do not have all the facts, i.e. we do not have data miners running 'round the clock collecting information about terrorists, WMD-seeking nations, and other threats to our national security, like the president and his cabinet do. We do not possibly, and will probably never in our lifetime, have all the information that the President, Secretary Rumsfeld (not "Rummy"), and Secretary Rice do to make decisions. This doesn't mean we shouldn't use the facts that we're given. Those who speak against going to war, against domestic spying, and against torture do so out of ignorance.

 

First the war: Despite popular opinion, WMD's were discovered in Iraq (do a Google search for "iraq wmds sarin gas uranium"), and it only makes sense even if you're not going to believe it. I doubt that anyone will disagree that Saddam Hussein was a less-than-good guy. Heck, the man believed he was Nebuchadnezzar reincarnated, the ancient king of Babylon, destined to rule the world. Using secrecy to obtain the means to fulfill this ambition would be the next logical step. His connections to Osama bin Laden also make sense, both parties want America's and Israel's destruction, why wouldn't they want to work together?

 

Saddam Hussein: To the date the war began, he defied seventeen, count 'em, seventeen U.N. resolutions to disarm his nation. He has murdered thousands, perhaps millions of his own people (mass graves discovered), probably in weapons testing. Until he was deposed, there was a reason the U.S. had a trade embargo and the U.N. an oil embargo against Iraq. We didn't want this man to have any more money than he already did. As I like to say: Nothing good could have come of this.

Domestic spying: I have no problem with this. Period. If the intelligence people want to listen to me talking to my friends about our plans for this week, great, I really don't care, except I think their resources are better spent elsewhere. As long as the government doesn't go bashing down some poor family's door just because they're suspicious about their phone calls, very unlikely, then let them be. If the terrorists do have a cell here, I'd rather our intelligence-gathering services do everything in their power to discover them and their plans, via wire-tapping or otherwise. Not to mention they're probably not American citizens entitled to the same rights as such anyways.

 

Torture: If I have a terrorist in my custody who's hidden a 9-megaton nuclear device somewhere in Dallas, then I'm going to use every means available to coerce the location of that device out of him. I really don't give a damn about his pain. He's a would-be murderer and does not deserve the basic human rights of life and happiness that he would so readily deny others. On a more legal note, the Geneva Convention does not cover ununiformed and undeclared combatants. But far be it from me to let someone else's reservations get in the way about doing what's necessary to find it.

Guantanamo? Fine. Reportedly some prisoners don't want to leave since the conditions there are much better than anywhere else they've been. They live better than most homeless people on the mainland.

 

Y'know, somehow I think amidst all of the chatter that we forget that the brave men and women in the military, the intelligence and law-enforcement communities, and, yes, even the government, wouldn't be doing the job they do unless they have our nation's best interests at heart and readily give of themselves to keep the rest of us idiots safe. Remember, we'll probably never know everything that these courageous people have done for us in this life. Heh, at the very least, President Bush is an improvement over Clinton (impeached by the House of Representatives for perjury) in terms of honesty.

 

On a less civil note:

 

Nazi: Self explanatory. Put a picture of him standing at the podium, then one of Hitler, and put them side-by-side. See any similarities?

THAT'S IT?

You put Hitler on a podium, then replace him with the President? Forgive me, but I really don't understand the concept you're trying to drive. What are we supposed to be looking for? Similar hairstyles? Fingernails cut to the same length? Looking through a piece of polarized glass and seeing a swastika stealthily embroidered on his jacket front?

 

C'mon people, I think we could put pretty much anyone on that podium and spot similarities. Winston Churchill notwithstanding. I have lots of ammo against that, but I've gone far enough for the night.

 

 

*sigh*

 

God bless the U.S.A., that the U.S.A. may bless God.

 

 

 

Do not, I repeat, do not even think about criticizing my spelling.

[39thRonin]

Consider this: we do not have all the facts...

 

Ahhh, at last, some reason! Thank you Aurora for bringing some sense of sanity to this thread. You have obviously thought about these topics rather than simply spouting the mdeia and leftist sponsored BS that crams our airwaves. The world would be a much better place if there were more people like you

 

To the folks out there that do not read anything but news and blogs that agree with their own opinion - you really owe it to yourselves and your various countries to do some real truth searching. I tire of the endless - and totally unsubstantiated - charges of President Bush "lying". You are simply being uninformed tools of people who crave power and will do anything to get it. Use your minds and do some reasoning. If you have questions - ask.

 

Here's an example - this Katrina thing. As I stated previously, the Feds CANNOT respond the way most of you seem to think they can. By stating, and blaming President Bush for the lack of response, you show both your ignorance of US law and your biased sources of information. Email someone who was there in New Orleans (I have) and they will tell you straight up what really happened. The local government FAILED their people, and they with their willing media accomplices decided to pin the blame on President Bush. Don't beleive me? Read their own Emergency Management Plan. Read about Posse Comitatus (a US Law that PREVENTS the feds from simply barging into any state).

[munky]

jbacko: do you seriously think that the US has the right to assert its power over the rest of the world, to shape the world to fit its own best interests?

 

does nobody else get a say? if not, why not? because the US is the mightiest superpower, they have the biggest armed forces, they have the most nukes?

 

do me a favour - go google the PNAC - Project for the New American Century. Many of the bush cabinet are singed-up members of the PNAC. check out their statement of principles:

 

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

 

also read their magnum opus, "Rebuilding America's Defenses"

 

http://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

 

I mean... does that all sound fair enough to you? To me it sounds like the rantings of a bunch of lunatics, quite frankly.

 

My big problem with all this stuff is the sheer arrogance of the pro-Pax Americana camp. Why is it automatically desirable to the entire world that AMERICAN values are promoted above all else? Who are the US to decide whats good for everyone else? How can they possibly understand and appreciate foreign attitudes, foreign ideals, foreign points of view, without inevitably thinking about them from a purely western point of view? How can the US possibly know what goat-herders living in the mountains of Afghanistan think of their lives, of their country, of the ways of the world? What about the Chinese? What about the Russians? (OK, admittedly the US has spent a LOT of time worrying about what *those* guys think...) In short, why is it up to the US to forcibly promote US ideals throughout the world? What do they want, everyone eating McDonalds, drinking Starbucks and wearing f***ing Nike? Would they like the whole world to be the good old US of A?

 

f*** that.

[OryHara]

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, your ignorance is, well, simply astounding. Loss of Freedom? Where exactly where you staying? San Quentin?

 

Paranoid? Well, it may seem that way to you, but we lost 3000 people on 9/11 and don't intend to lose anyone else.

 

Nazis? Big Brother? On what possible basis can you make such a comparison? I could name at least 100 countries with killing fields so vast that plants refuse to grow there - Cambodia, Viet Nam, Russia, China... The people who committed those autrocities were not Americans.

 

Hate the US? Fine. Cool with me. Stay in your own countries - we'll stop sending the checks (you might want to check out the foriegn aid provided to your country) and providing protection.

 

I just got back two weeks ago from a capitol city in central america. On every street corner was a private security guard (armed to the teeth) because crime was so out of control, and the police were so corrupt that hotels, shopping centers, banks, and resturants had to hire their own "police" to keep their patrons safe.

 

Oh, and BTW, you all just keep thinking that terrorism is happening because of President Bush. When he is long gone and the islamofacists are burning your cities to the ground (France, Spain, London, Phillipines, etc - all since 9/11) keep talking about "Justice" OK?

Ignornace is bliss in your world isn't it?

 

I have seldom seen someone who spouts the media line and the liberal line so well. You really need to look into employment with one of those establishments.

 

Nazi? Well, there is an oft-quoted saw about arguments. The first person to brings up Nazis loses. You Lose...

 

Greedy? Hmmm, are we a bit envious? Might be nice to be able to buy whatever one needs or wants...

 

Terrorist? Takes oil? Well, the last time I filled up it was not free. One would expect that if we were getting all this "free" oil that it would cost less. Who knew?

 

President Bush takes alot of heat - some of it justified. But he is NONE of the labels your left-wing talking points has you spewing. Try a bit of knowledge, try a bit of reality for a change....

 

Be a bush bot. Like that Rice woman. The moron will never get reelected thank god. The moron's time is up. This country needs to get ridd of the dumbass's anti-constitutional garabge. You can let that sorry son of a {censored} trample your rights all you want, but ill be DAMNED if I do. Ill say whatever I want, when I want. And not bush, or anyone else will tell me what I can, and can't say.

 

That sorry son of a a {censored} goes and attacks iraq for NO reason other than to take their oil. Afghanistan attacked America. NOT IRAQ. I don't like Iraq anymore than anyone else because they oppressed their people, beat their women, and have anti-christian values. But they din't do a damn thing to provoke an attack from America.

 

You can keep your damn Enron loving son of a {censored} all you want. But the f*** 500 can kiss my ass.

For the love of money is the root of all evil my brother.

 

Yea, Nazi. A ruler, or dictator. hes an modern Hitler. He loves his oil. I hope he drowns in it.

 

Now he comes back from India, and wants the US to send all their jobs over there. f*** India. Let them keep their own economy. If they can't develop by themselves, then tough {censored}. All our jobs go over there for $2 an hour because the law enforces it, and workers have no choice. I'm sure there are people in this forum that have lost their jobs to some slave labor factory over in China, or India. There have been more jobs lost under Bush than any other president in history, and THAT IS A FACT.

[munky]

he also turned the largest surplus in history into the biggest deficit. mad skills!

 

@jbacko: "Terrorist? Takes oil? Well, the last time I filled up it was not free. One would expect that if we were getting all this "free" oil that it would cost less. Who knew?"

 

Are you a moron? America attacks Iraq (or Iran, or any other oil-producing middle-eastern country), moves in, sets up a puppet government who just *happens* to allow American Big Business in, they bleed the country dry of its oil, and SELLS IT FOR THE SAME PRICE AS THEY ALWAYS DID. result == MASSIVE profits, america tightens its grip on the world's oil, and - lets face it, we're all dependant on oil, and hence we're all dependant on American Big Business.

 

@Aurora: the attitude you express of "i dont mind the government listening in, because i have nothing to hide" is a very very dangerous attitude. your forefathers fought and died to secure your fundamental freedoms and rights, and it sullies their memory for you to give those up so easily. do you really want to live in a police state? you already have a 'secret police' in the shape of the CIA; you live in a country where free and fair elections appear to be an impossibility (do some research into the whole Diebold voting machine debacle, or the disenfranchisement of the black and hispanic communities for further information) - you've gotta watch this {censored}, dude, your freedoms are slipping away, and you dont even care. the illusion of freedom is so strong that you dont see the Real Bad {censored} which is going down in the shadows.

 

As an illustration of why this is such a dangerous thing, take the example of a bunch of students who were arrested on suspicion of being an Al-Qaeda 'sleeper cell'. These guys were all of middle-eastern origin, and had all been to Afghanistan (some of you are no doubt already sure they're guilty as hell, for these 'crimes' alone). The 'evidence' which was collected was a scrap paper of doodles, which the arresting officers thought were a coded map, and some video footage of a trip to disneyland, where every random swing of the camera was interpreted as 'suggestions for good bomb sites'. Yeeeeaaah... RIGHT. Thats gotta be it. Bomb sites. And not, for example, a home movie of a bunch of kids enjoying Disneyland.... THIS is the root of the problem. If everyone is a suspect, then 'facts' and circumstantial evidence can be manipulated and distorted to fit the perceived 'truth'. And of course, thanks to the genius stroke of Guantanamo, people can be shipped off and locked up indefinitely without ever seeing a court of law. If thats the kind of place you want to live, you're welcome to it.

 

(BTW, ask yourself a question - why is guantanamo not on US soil? Why is it on a communist island nation, on a piece of land with a dubious legal history? Why, if not simply to avoid the jurisdiction of the US courts, and to sit nicely in a legal grey area?)