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Is leopard a real 64bit OS?


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#21
Sevan

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It isn't true 64-bit, but it can utilize 64-bit capabilities in your Core 2 Duo processor.

#22
bofors

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Leopard is the Last Operating system to receive "Carbon" support. 10.6 will force everyone to move to 64 Bit Carbon.


What?

From my limited research on this subject, it appears that Apple is forcing Carbon programmers to switch to Cocoa for 64 Bit support.

Otherwise, Carbon will be supported in 10.6:

http://www.roughlydr...rd-5-no-carbon/

#23
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As far As I know Mac os leopard is not Fully 64 bit....
But the 4 gig issue is not related to 32 bit or 64 bit... well from what I've read...
If you want to go higher than 64 gig you will need an 64 bit os...

Oh and since service pack1, vista 32bit has no problems with 4 gig or higher..

and thats not with any memory holes.... ETC!!!

No, 32-bit Windows can't use more than about 3.5gb of RAM. What it shows there is the amount you have installed, not how much you can use.

#24
Daksfamus

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leopard is 32bit, when snow leopard comes out, that's 64bit. 32bit os's can not address over 8gb's. 64bit os's will address up to 32gbs.

#25
Colonel

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leopard is 32bit, when snow leopard comes out, that's 64bit. 32bit os's can not address over 8gb's. 64bit os's will address up to 32gbs.

Wow, somebody's been chugging the noobsauce!

32-bit OSes can address up to 4GB of ram, whereas 64-bit OSes can handle up to 16TB of ram.

#26
bofors

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leopard is 32bit, when snow leopard comes out, that's 64bit. 32bit os's can not address over 8gb's. 64bit os's will address up to 32gbs.


Here is what Apple says about Leopard being a 64-Bit OS:

64-Bit. Advanced precision in one OS.

Leopard delivers 64-bit power in one universal operating system. Now the Cocoa application frameworks, as well as graphics, scripting, and the UNIX foundations of the Mac, are all 64-bit. And since you get full performance and compatibility for your 32-bit applications and drivers, you don’t need to update everything on your system just to run a single 64-bit application.
Bridge the generation gap.

Since the entire operating system is 64-bit ready, you can take full advantage of the Xeon processors in the Mac Pro and Xserve. You get more processing power at up to 3.0GHz, without limiting your programs to command-line applications, servers, and computation engines.
Driver compatibility.

Because of its universal nature, with Leopard you don’t need a new set of drivers — or devices. New 64-bit applications work just fine with your existing printers, storage devices, and PCI cards. Even better, if you upgrade to new 64-bit-capable drivers, your 32-bit applications will also benefit from the increased throughput.
64-bit frameworks.

In addition to the POSIX and math libraries supported in Tiger, Leopard enables developers to build complete 64-bit applications using the Cocoa, Quartz, OpenGL, and X11 GUI frameworks. You can even use 64-bit Java on capable Intel processors. And the 64-bit and 32-bit versions of the libraries are built from exactly the same code base, to ensure a consistent experience for both developers and users.

64-Bit for Developers

Xcode 3.0 gives you all the tools you need to build true 64-bit applications, including:

* 64-bit addressing of up to 16 exabytes of virtual memory and 4 terabytes of physical memory
* Full 64-bit arithmetic
* 64-bit development tools
* 64-bit performance monitoring tools
* Seamless deployment
* LP64 data model
* Common source base support
http://www.apple.com...logy/64bit.html

Here is what Apple is saying about 64-Bit improvements in Snow Leopard:

64-bit

To accommodate the enormous amounts of memory being added to advanced hardware, Snow Leopard extends the 64-bit technology in Mac OS X to support breakthrough amounts of RAM — up to a theoretical 16TB, or 500 times more than what is possible today. More RAM makes applications run faster, because more of their data can be kept in the very fast physical RAM instead of on the much slower hard disk.

http://www.apple.com...sx/snowleopard/

This appears to mean the following:

Mac OS X 10.5 moved a lot of the OS to 64-bit, and Snow Leopard finishes this. By having a 64-bit kernel, the OS can support up to 16 terabytes of RAM, larger numbers of running processes, and so on. Along with ZFS, moving the last parts of the OS to 64-bit helps future-proof Mac OS X and allow for (hopefully) bigger and better hardware to put it to work.
http://www.macworld....pardserver.html

My 64-Bit question is: Will switching from running 2 GB of RAM to 4 GB or 8 GB result in a significant OS X performance increase in Leopard or Snow Leopard? I have previously run with 3 GB and 4 GB of RAM in Tiger and not seen any significant improvement in general OS X performance before. Note that I am not concerned about running applications that have a need for more than 1 GB of RAM.

#27
ColdStart

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By looking at a lot of the system processes and the types of binaries they contain as a fat file tells me that the majority of Leopard is not 64-bit.
One of the upsides of Snow Leopard is that the majority of the system processes, core services, and default applications are truly compiled as 64-bit.

It certainly makes me happy to know that more processes will be able to use my 8 GB of 1066MHz DDR2 RAM (had to get them, the deal on NewEgg was just too awesome.)

Kind of makes me wish that there was a site with a compiled list of 64-bit OS X applications.

This really made me sad when I read it:
http://www.appleinsi..._till_v5_0.html

#28
new1phone

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Bottom line is that 32 bit OS can't (won't) use more than 4GB memory ..
XP/Vista 32bit won't .. so for what matters it's a 64 bits OS .. some people will be puritans and won't touch the ale .. but sam adams did :-) and we are thankful to him.

it's not the issue ..

#29
bonestonne

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so far (before snow leopard) OS X has been a HYBRID KERNEL. that means it has parts of both and can access more RAM and that's also why a Mac Pro may say that its OS is a 64 bit version, even if it's just 10.4.10. once Snow Leopard hits, there will be a fine line between the hybrid kernel and a true 64 bit kernel.

#30
vbetts

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But correct me if I'm wrong. Snow leopard will support PPC as well, which wouldn't make it a true 64-bit OS?

#31
netkas

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what a deal of this topic ?

32-bit leopard kernel has 32 and 64 bit commpage, 32 and 64 bit idt, and etc.

thx to PAE , 32-bit kernel allows 64-bit processes to use more than 4gb of ram.

and now, snow leopard kernel is macho fat file with next archs - x86/x86_64/ppc (no ppc64 yeah)

64-bit snowlepers kernel works same as 32-bit, only difference - kernel itself can use more than 4gb (will we ever need that ?) and there is no 64-bit video/audio/wifi drivers

both kernels works same for 32/64-bit processes.

32-bit processes does not have windows like problems, like kernel/application memory split, so 32-bit apps can use up to 4gb of memory (no 2gb limit).

#32
bofors

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64-bit snowlepers kernel works same as 32-bit, only difference - kernel itself can use more than 4gb (will we ever need that ?)


This again, is one of my questions about Snow Leopard.

Is there going to be a good reason to have more than 2 GB of RAM for general use with Snow Leopard?

Can Apple increase general OS X performance by using significantly more RAM by taking advantage of 64-bit extensions?

#33
SemjaZa

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So when are we going to notice this 64bit business? Ive never used more than 4gb of ram with one application addressing it all... are there sum magic instructions that are 64bit that willl significantly better the whole experience of using osx? or is this impressing us with bits and bytes?

I really doubt this will make a difference except for those with enormous ammounts of memory.

#34
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@ Bofors, if you are not interested in apps that use more than 1gb RAM, like you say, you won't notice much difference going above 2gb for general usage: it's pretty much the sweet spot.

However if you use intensive programs, especially 64-bit applications with large datasets (eg.huge photos, or video), you will see a big difference.

#35
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But correct me if I'm wrong. Snow leopard will support PPC as well, which wouldn't make it a true 64-bit OS?


ding ding ding ?

#36
bofors

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AppleInsider has post a four part series on Snow Leopard and the 64-bit queston:

http://www.appleinsi...ow_Leopard.html

#37
MacMeGosh

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thanks... answered some questions on that one. ;-p

#38
MithrilFox

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As far As I know Mac os leopard is not Fully 64 bit....
But the 4 gig issue is not related to 32 bit or 64 bit... well from what I've read...
If you want to go higher than 64 gig you will need an 64 bit os...

Oh and since service pack1, vista 32bit has no problems with 4 gig or higher..

and thats not with any memory holes.... ETC!!!


Unfortunately that is not true about Windows (XP or Vista). It can only address and use up to 3.5GB of that. This is a known and well-recognized limitation of Windows XP/Vista 32-bit.

Leopard, on the other hand, can address far more. I currently have installed and running 8GB in my Leopard system, and it can fully access all of it. 8GB in a Windows XP/Vista 32-bit system will still only use 3.5GB.

So when are we going to notice this 64bit business? Ive never used more than 4gb of ram with one application addressing it all... are there sum magic instructions that are 64bit that willl significantly better the whole experience of using osx? or is this impressing us with bits and bytes?

I really doubt this will make a difference except for those with enormous ammounts of memory.


In other words, for people who use their Macs to work with extremely large data such as HD video, large photos, and high quality music?

As in... a significant portion of Mac users, considering that they make up quite a lot of the user-base. If you find a Mac user here, there's a pretty fair chance he or she uses FCS, Logic Pro, Aperture, or one of the design suite applications (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc).

#39
Andy Vandijck

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AFAIK Leopard kernel boots up standardly in 32-bit mode.
It enables EM64T as a kind of extension (if possible with CPU...).
Snow Leopard on the other hand has an mach_kernel Universal Binary which also contains x86_64...
So from the boot up it is fully 64-bit...
More info on this:
http://en.wikipedia..../Mac_OS_X_v10.6

#40
DomozitoLK

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Leopard, on the other hand, can address far more. I currently have installed and running 8GB in my Leopard system, and it can fully access all of it. 8GB in a Windows XP/Vista 32-bit system will still only use 3.5GB.


I wish my Leopard install would be able to use all 8GB I have. I installed 8GB and it wouldn't boot all the way to the desktop...just blue screen with no icons or cursor. Removed a stick of DDR2 and it would boot to the desktop with 6GB installed. About this Mac only recognized 4GB, but System profiler identified all 3-sticks (6GB). Apps like console, software update and the installer app would launch and quickly crash. Removing another stick (4GB total) would give me a more stable system with all apps functioning as they should.

I guess it's an issue with AMD processors and 64-bit addressing under Leopard (or lack there of).





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