Yeah I'll definately make sure I don't get screwed over and end up paying an awful lot! =O

Do you own any other Macs other than a Hackintosh?

This would be my first Mac and I am loving it.

Hoooly cow =O You BUILT your first Mac, I envy you. I wish I had held out and bought a MacPro, I don't get much use out of the portability of my MBP! But I still love it. So building a MacPro would be a good learning curve for a novice modder/builder like me and also set me up for life with a powerful computer =]

Incredible build and write up. im very impressed with how easy (relatively) it was to build a macpro out of parts.
Il definitely consider this when it comes to building my workstation.....Currently i just use my macbook and im working on a triple 22" panoramic screen for when i get a decent PC/Mac pro.

I suggest that the reason your fans are very noisy is because you have solid mounted them to the case. If at all possible you should isolate the fans from the case by using rubber grommets and foam pads.
The fans vibrate when they are spinning and if solidly mounted, will just resonate and amplify the noise throughout the case.

Rubber mounting your fans, hard drives and disk drives might be an easier option to pursue rather than watercooling, but its your decision.
I guess rubber grommets and sound deadening dont have the same sex appeal that cooling your computer with water does lol

The noise is not vibration, it sounds like a jet engine taking off. It is because the computer thinks the cpus are over heating and running all fans at full speed in attempt to cool them down. I am going to go to radio shack and pick up some variable resistors and hook them into the jacks where the CPU thermal sensor would go if I had Apple heat sinks. This way I can dial in a "temp reading". Of course I would much prefer to find some thermal sensors that work. I might be able to make my own sensors. Once I know what Ohm range is needed to set what temps then I can hunt down the correct thermistors and wire them into a 2 pin jack.

I had to tear everything down last night and I looked at the water cooling aspect again. The system will boot without a drive in Bay 1 but it is still such a tight fit to get everything (radiator, CPU blocks ,pump) in, it will take a good bit of work. I may just pass on the water cooling part as I want to spend time using my system versus modding it I did replace all the apple fans with Yate Loons and they are almost whisper quiet and keeping the system temps at a reasonable level so far.

I did discover one problem so far. My system does not register as a Mac Pro in System Profiler so I can not apply any of the firmware updates. This could also be related to why my cpus are only reporting as 2.13 GHz instead of 2.4 GHz. I am right now researching how to force flash the BootRom to get around this but not having much luck. I ran into another person with the same issue and we both self built our Mac Pro and got our logic boards from the same place.

Hmm do you think this could be a huge problem? Not receiving the firmware updates? Or do you think you can find a way to get around this? If so please post it here =D I wonder why you can't get firmware updates if it is a licensed version of OS X! =[

It has nothing to do with a licensed version of OS X, it is all about the logic board not reporting itself as a Mac Pro. No clue if this is a huge problem or not.

Nagal,

Can you put up a grab of what system Profiler is reporting your system as?

Amazingly I had emailed the information to myself at work this morning so here it is

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: Mac
Model Identifier: M43ADP1,1
Processor Speed: 2.13 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 8 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
Boot ROM Version: AAPLM431.004E.B00
SMC Version: 1.7f0
Serial Number: System Serial#

Read this forum topic:

http://forums.macnn.com/65/mac-pro-and-pow...rmware-causing/

The OP seems to have the same problem as you. Or were you the one that made that topic?

EDIT: Ha ha I see...this guy is the person you are talking about that has the same problem

AHA, Apple Development platform. The 1,1 is what is reported by a mac pro, (MacPro 1,1) so I think your processors are the items that are causing the system not to be recognized as a mac pro. That could be tricky. As you say probably within the firmware is a compatibility list in the same way a PC motherboard bios recognizes and reports the CPU as a particular type. Would be interesting to look inside the firmware.

Yeah the other guy with the same problem is also using Engineering Samples too so that could be the problem. The other possibility is a bogus logic board. Both nagal and the other guy bought the logic board from the same place apparently (mac-pro.com).

Yeah, I just read your post after I posted, you must type just a tad faster than me!! lol.

Yup already on that thread and we both got the logic boards from the same place. Might not mean anything but its interesting coincidence.




I am not sure its the CPUs causing it but I am not ruling that out either. The easy answer would be to grab some 2.0 GHz Dual Core Xeons and throw them in and see what happens. I am also going to look into the whole Open Firmware thing and see what I can find out. I know you can no longer boot into Open Firmware on the EFI Macs but you can still get at the properties through terminal or so my research would indicate. My thinking is maybe I can trick the system into thinking its a Mac Pro just so I can install the firmware update and then it will remember its a Mac Pro Of course there is a high chance I might brick the board so I need to have a spare $500 on hand to buy a new one if I do. Ahh... the fun of trailblazing new frontiers

So my current options are:

1. Do nothing and enjoy 8 cores of goodness on a "Development" Mac
2. Tinker around with Open Firmware to trick the firmware upgrade into running. Bricking possible.
3. Find a pair of Xeon 5130 put them in and rule out the CPUs as the cause.

3 Involves a good bit of cash for a just see factor. 2 might involve a good bit cash as well.

Ah I see now, I thought it'd be within the OS but that's gonna be tricky if it's the processors or Logic Board.. hmm. Changing the processors just seems a little too simple and to good to be true lol, I hope you'll be able to get it running with official firmware updates =D

Another thread to read:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=398406

Think it is the same guy.

So I got a reply from Mac-Pro.com "We have no control over Apple's firmware. Sorry, nothing we can do." Nice. So.... no help from that area.

Tonight I will be playing with the Open Firmware just to see what properties I have access to. I will of course post here what I find out.

Great Keep us posted. Also, do you plan to include the original Mac Pro Bluetooth? They have the Bluetooth module for Mac Pro on Mac-Pro.com for $49.99 here:

http://www.mac-pro.com/Bluetooth-Module-Up...p;category=6223

A few things to report.

I ordered the wrong screws for mounting the power supply, doh! There are 2 sets of mounting holes on the PSU, one set is M3 which is what I ordered the other is M4 which is what you need. Luckily Lowes carries M4s. Unluckily I bought Socket Head screws and these prevents HD Sled 3 from sliding in. I removed the one screw that was the issue and HD Sled 3 went right in. At least I have 3 of the 4 mounting screws in.

Hooking up a variable resistor to the CPU heat sink sensor jack did nothing which is odd. The thermal sensors are just thermistors which are heat controlled variable resistors. I tried a 500K Ohm and 5M Ohm variable resistor and no difference in CPU heatsink temp read outs. I am wondering if my "developer" firmware has something to do with it.

A post in Aqua-Macs mod thread got me thinking. His Hack was reporting as a Mac Pro. At the time I could not remember which kext was responsible but I did remember later on that it is AppleSMBIOS.kext. Now there is nothing in the Info.plist that controls these variables so I download the source for AppeSMBIOS.kext and I am installing Xcode right now. I am going to compile my own kext that will report the proper values for Model Name, Model Identifier and Boot ROM Version to System Profiler. I am *hoping* once this is done, the MacPro EFI Firmware Updater will run. Its a long shot as there is no telling where the EFI Firmware Updater gets the values it uses to determine if it is running on the appropriate machine.

Here is the AppleSMbios.kext you were talking about. I had this in an email I sent to myself at work, you might be interested to look at it. This reports my Hack as a GA 33M DS2R though.

Thanks. I found the AppleSMBIOS I used with EFI. With it installed System Profiler now shows this:

Model Name: Mac
Model Identifier: Mac Pro
Processor Speed: 2.13 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 8 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
Boot ROM Version: Hack.int.0sh
SMC Version: 1.7f0
Serial Number: YM8659M6W0A

I am hoping once I figure out how to compile my own AppleSMBIOS.kext I can then figure out how to get it to report the values I know the MacPro EFI Firmware Update is looking for. As I said before, this is assuming the EFI Update gets its values through AppleSMBIOS. I have been looking over the AppleSMBIOS source code and it is fairly straight froward. Its just a matter of figuring out what is what as their is not a variable of structure member called ModelName or ModelIdentifier.

Looks like I am going to buy a lot of junk food and soda and pull an all weekend coding session. Have not done one of those in a long long time.

Good luck Nagal! =D If you manage to sort this will you put the necessary things up for download so others who want to build a MacPro and encounter the same issue can just download and install what you code so it'll recognise it as a MacPro and enable firmware updates?

I'm not a coder and I got no clue what a kext is (enlighten me? lol)

Kemmi,

I doubt very many people will run into this issue. It is my firm belief that the logic board sold to me was part of some kind of Apple Developement kit but if I do sort this out and anyone that runs into the issue I will be more than willing to help out.

So a little progress to report. I did managed to compile the AppleSMBIOS.kext from source code. I then installed it (saving the one aqua-mac gave me) and it loaded up with out issue on reboot. System Profiler is showing the original information as before. NOW I just need to figure out what values are what in the source code. Sadly this is going to be a lot of trail and error with a lot of reboot to see if it worked.

Thanks for the offer of your willingness to help =D and tip on the Logic Board buy, I'll make sure not to buy an Apple Development model! It's good to have a lot of genuine people on this board

Thanks! =D

Any updates?

Nope. Nothing to report on the firmware. I am 99% positive I was sold a development board and with that I will not recommend anyone use Mac-Pro.com. While it might be the exact same logic board as used in the quad core MacPro, the firmware prevents it from being flashed with any of the other updated firmwares.

So what do you plan on doing, nagal? Replacing the Logic Board? Or just sticking with what you have now?

nagal, you dont need to use the efi updater app from apple, you boot into the shell and use the efi flahing app from there, use refit to boot into the efi shell

Kemmi,

It depends. I did talk with Apple and while they did not come out and say its possible to flash it, they did imply I could take it an Apple Authorized Repair Center or Apple Store and have it flashed. There is an Mac only shop near by me and I am going to go in and talk with the tech guys to see if it is possible. I do not know want to drive to the nearest Apple Store just to be told to go away and they might even be able to do it. I have just been super busy and have not had a chance to get over there before all the tech people leave for the day and this is a conversation I want to do face to face.

More than likely, I will just stick with it for the time being as I have other things I would like to drop $500 on and there is a possibility of a job change and move in the near future so buying toys might have to go on hold for abit.

Do not get me wrong, this board WORKS but I think the issue with the CPU sensors not working and the processors not running at the correct speed (2.13 GHz vs 2.4 GHz) is due to the firmware. Still, I got a hell of a computer legally running OS X for a good price.

Kiko,

I did try using rEFIt to get into the EFI shell and update using the efi updater app I extracted from the Firmware Update package. I do not know the command parameters to use with it. I tried EFIUpdaterApp -x <efi rom file> and it quickly flashed something on the screen and then the computer rebooted. If you know the magic commands, tell me and I will be your best friend forever

awesome a friend

Oh sweet BUT my problem is with the BootROM Firmware not the SMC I will try the same the -LoadApp parameter on with the BootROM and see what happens.

yeah, its the same thing with the mainfirmware, just not the smc flasher app. and if u have have any troubles gettting command options, just open the efi app in a hex editor and look for strings

Actually I had thought of opening the efi app and looking at it but I kept getting side tracked. Good to know my brain still works now if I could fix the memory part.

Dude, you rock!

Will report back tonight if successful tomorrow if failure because it fired my firmware

if failure and it fried ur mobo, u can always drop it off at a apple service center and say your mobo is fried

Well did not work.

If I use the app packaged with MacProFirmwareUpdate nothing happens. I type command after command and nothing. If I use the app packaged with MacProFirmwareUpdate1.2 something flashes on the screen then the computer reboots. I tried doing the SmcUpdate and it runs but comes back with invalid config error after parsing the SMC file. I used a Hex Editor to look at the EFI Updater app and notice a series of boot rom strings in it. I *think* it is still trying to make sure you are not flashing the incorrect board. I am going to try to find the boot rom string (its more than what is displayed in System Profiler) and edit that into the EFI Update App and see if it will then run.

Even if it does not work, Kiko is still my new friend

boo ya! 3rd base with a guy

hmm, the best i can recommend is taking the mp into apple store and say it doesnt upgrade firmware

I would not hesitate to take it in but as soon as they look inside someone is going to go "hmmmm". I am going to try to get off work early tomorrow and swing by my local Mac place and talk to the techs there.

Who said anything about 3rd base? I never go to 3rd base on the first date sober

Minor update. Talking with Mac-Pro.com and we might be working out a motherboard swap. If they make this right, I will take back everything bad I said about them. They should have been up front about the firmware from the beginning and when I first contacted them about it made the effort to make things right, right then.

Good luck, nagal! Do you happen to know if they sell like mostly development logic boards or did you just happen to unknowingly draw the short straw on this one?

That is good news to hear! I suspect they got those boards from someone (not necessarily Apple) at a slightly better price!

nice to see, build from scratch, but not green 350W+ = $2000 in 4 years

and the noise,.... I'am a silent freak, can't stand noise,
and the juice it sucks, it's to consider,... watt * 1.5$ ....
it's possible to save with shutdown and sleep,...

thinking down the road, stealth mac, aka ulv chip, sata flash drive,....

the other problem, my kids like to play games, as such the imac's don't have interchangeable graphics cards,..
and the stock don't cut it,.... and a mac pro is out of question, now if all games where available on a ps3,
....
keep us posted, the flash rom is pisser,....

on the case,... right now running in a black cube server case,..
so that long mac pro mb,... need to take a look at server cases,....of course , no mac pro , but there are options,
and lot more room,....
for the noise, why not a fanmate to start, and then a full blown fan controller
last, equivalent superdrivers, where to get them ?

Hi Nagal,

Just wanted to let you know your engineering samples are E5330's hence the 2.13 clock. BSEL will get you to 2.66

E5330's should be marked HH80563KH0468M, 2.13-> 2.66

E5340's should be marked HH80563KH0568M, 2.4-> 3.0 ( I have two stepping B3 installed on the M43ADP1,1 board and one stepping G0 on my backup board )

E5350's should be marked HH80563KH0678M, 2.66-> 3.33

Well with some Yate Loon fans in, this machine is NOT noisy at all its only with the stock fans that things get wind tunnelish I could even put in some Nexus fans which are just slower Yate Loons but they the make less noise than the YL but push less air.

Even if you did not use a MacPro case, buying the wiring loom for the PSU, Hard drives is not going to be cheap. Just so it is clear, the logicboard supports 6 SATA devices but there are only 2 Sata ports then one jumbo port for the other 4. It had a name but for the life of me can not remember what it is called.

newtech,

My CPUs are HH80563QH0568M QQYK so they should read as 2.4. Interestingly enough I just got done doing the BSEL mod tonight and they still show up as 2.13 GHz and 1066FSB. I am going to reset the PRAM maybe that will force the system into seeing them at the higher FSB.

Hope it's going to come along nicely, nagal! Any news on that Logic Board switch from Mac-Pro.com?

Also what are you going to do about wireless? Airport? Or is that already onboard with the Logic Board?

I should here something Monday about the logic board. Mac-Pro.com needed the serial # from the board and I did not get that to them until Saturday. There is no wireless built in, its an add-on card. I might do it someday but wireless is not important to me at all.

Why the Apple Remote? How can you use that?

The Apple Remote can function as a wireless transport control in Logic Studio. I have a plain old USB IR receiver and some research says it will "just work" but that has yet to be determined.

Hi Nagal,

I'm still adament about building a MacPro! Just wondering if you ever considered sponsorship during this? Perhaps filming the building and having sponsors logos shown throughout the video; resulting in being paid for the adspace.

Or did you just decide to put your own money in this thing? =P

Thanks!


- Kemmi

Sponsorship would have been a good idea for sure and really help offset a lot of the cost! Good luck on your own build and if you have any questions just ask. it really is not that hard and the only issue I have had is the logic board which I think most people would not run into.