Dragon,

I also tried aside from /dev/sr0 I also tried using /dev/scd0. No go. I guess I'll have to download that ISO file again. No wait, I can just image the original DVD... duh... well am on it then.

I used PearPC back when things first got started 3.9/4.1. It works but is slow also. Pear was out done by VM.

I don't know if you can get Pear to work in the same way you're using QEMU

I would advise you to use PearPC, too. PearPC has processor acceleration, while QEMU hasn't (well, OSX86 doesn't work if you enable it).

In fact, there have been idea's for a 'PearPC OS' in the past. The concept of PearOS was identical (DSL LiveCD + PearPC...).

Wow, what progress was made?

Made a few attempts at compiling pearPC. DSL uses old packages... i'm going to sleep, try again in the morning.

Got PearPC installed in knoppix. Just getting deadmoo image copied to the harddrive.

I tried using MagicISO to compile the .iso file from the DVD... no go
Any other suggestion for a program? Perhaps PowerISO?

Re-Downloading the 4gig ISO sucks

I like UltraISO.Premium

http://www.mediafire.com/?fbmwyjzwyot

MAC OS X x86 10.4.6 DVD >> Use alternate Source >>>>

Create / Obtain MAC OS X x86 10.4.6 ISO >> DONE

Burnt Knoppix 5.1.1 CD >> DONE

Use Qemu >> Done
Used the following command: qemu platform=x86pc "graphics mode"="800x600x16" /dev/hda6



Post Results >> Errors

Error #1 = cannot load Kqemu
Hence I used the following command: qemu platform=x86pc "graphics mode"="800x600x16" -no-kqemu /dev/hda6

Error #2 = qemu does NOTHING
LOL, it says that it is booting from my HDD partition (dev/hda6) but that is about it.
Click to view attachment

Any bright ideas guys??

swear very loudly....?

As Pu7o said, we are better off using PearPC instead of qemu. Sorry Embio for the change of plans. I have PearPC installed and running correctly in knoppix and am just trying to get the OS X image across onto the natively formatted ext2 partition (soon to try ntfs).

To install PearPC boot knoppix, open up a Konsole window and run these 2 commands.

apt-get update
apt-get install pearpc

then read the documentation on how it's used.. it's very similar to qemu.

Ok, in vmware I had to "chmod 777 /media/sda1" to be able to write to the harddrive (ext2). If anyone gets permission errors, use this command.

Ahhh... Now then...


I should have stated that am running Knoppix LiveCD. So I've just downloaded PearPC 0.40 and I'll see if it'll install (./configure) well with the Knoppix CD. If not I'll have to install Knoppix then.

Also all my partitions are formated in NTFS. I'll see if by changing one to FAT32 maybe qemu might actually work. Oh, I'll also double check the HDDs permissions as well.

I'll report on my finding and then I'll turn to PearPC.

None really. There were many ideas and promises. There even was a SourceForge-project, named 'PearOS.', but they haven't released anything.

It's strange, because I think a 'PearOS' should be easy to make.

Its funny to hear PearOS again, I use to play around with CherryOS and they had a big feud with the Pear guys

http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/10/12/cherryos/index.php

I got OS X working in qemu this afternoon (using knoppix). I will try ppc using the 10.4.1 developers kit dvd tonight.

Here are my screenshots of OS X in qemu.
It is running at a pretty decent speed considering knoppix is running under vmware. Knoppix won't boot on my p3 and it is the only OS that I have gotten qemu to work with(using OS X).

I am going to try and find out why knoppix isn't working on my p3 and try it on that.

Today i'm going to test in PearPC and see which runs faster.

BTW, if you want videos of OS X in qemu I will post some.

sorry to keep ducking in and out of this thread and not really contributing, been working on my server and trying to get uni work done on top of that (note the priority order!) I fail to see how emulating a PPC chip is faster than one kind of x86 on another kind of x86, but if that is a case at least we can use a known commodity, PearPC and a PowerPC version of Tiger, as opposed to a hacked OSx86

In the case of qemu and pearpc, both emulate a whole architecture therefore will only run at 10% - 20% native CPU power. Accelerators can be loaded into the kernel to speed up the emulation by carrying out some of the tasks natively. I have decided that we are using qemu with an acceleration module, but I can't find one that would be appropriate for an SSE2-less processor. I'm sure there are some, I will be looking tomorrow. By the way, using the kqemu accelerator with qemu allows qemu to use 80% native CPU power but requires SSE2.


Another thing that Ai Haibara has told me, is that PearPC doesn't emulate sound.
I will probably include both PearPC and Qemu in the final dvd and have an option to choose either and what accelerator to use. This dvd could be used as a solution for people who have incompatible hardware and want to run OS X aswell.


Things i'm doing at the moment :
Finding an accelerator that works on SSE.
Remastering a knoppix livecd.
Fix the problem with knoppix and my p3 so I can do some proper native testing.

Things left to do :
Strip knoppix of all unneeded apps and leave twm and fluxbox.
Add OS X install DVD (10.4.8)
Write scripts for virtual machine setup/startup.

I hope I get some of these done tomorrow, although I have schoolwork to do.

Yeah, school is always a problem.

Just an idea: perhaps you could use the SLAX-distrubution. There's some documantation to be found on their website about modyfing the existing SLAX LiveCD and/or creating your own livecd distribution. There even is a version of SLAX downloadable with QEMU included, already.

http://slax.linux-live.org

SLAX would be good, very light. cant see what advantages it would have over knoppix, other than the fact that Knoppix based CDs tend not to boot on some of my machines

You can't virtualize half the architecture and emulate just the SSE2 stuff. It doesn't work that way.

ok, let me put this idea forward (something i am planning on doing hopefully) what about porting the aqua user interface from say 10.2 or 10.3 to darwin 6.0.2 for the x8s platform?? you will still have os x (an earlier version) and you can run it on a system with a minimum of sse instructions. my thing is i'm not sure what files/directories make up the aqua interface in order to port it to the x86 version of darwin.

@ Pu7o


@cro
we can't port aqua because we don't have the source. unless you mean for us to rewrite it which will never happen.

@MacRetail
I looked into a SLAX live cd when I was first looking for liveCDs, but never found a way that it could be loaded into ram.

OK, I just read the stuff off the SLAX website that you posted. And saw the mounting in memory stuff. It looks amazing. That killbill edition is just what we need. Nice find

P.S sorry about not reading into that more, schoolwork is kind of piling up here...

What we need is minimal Darwin 8.8.1 compiled for SSE only, which is possible as we have the source. Also all darwin < 7.x.x was SSE i think. So i assume not much code does rely on SSE2, maybe only some simple checks.
A CPU kernelextension which intercepts SSE2 calls and translates them to SSE / (3dnow!) , much like Semthex has done with SSE3 emulation in the 8.8.1 kernel.
SSE2 has 144 instructions more than SSE which has 70. But most of those SSE2 instructions deal with double precision, and its questionable how much we need them.

The source of qemu might be useful for a list of translations of simd instructions.

That would take SOOO long it's not funny. SSE3 has 13 instructions and Semthex has taken months just to code an emulator for these. He is quite an experienced coder. Also Semthex's SSE3 emulator translates the calls into SSE2 equivalent calls meaning you would have to write the SSE3 emulator to translate to SSE. This is far too much work and would take years. Let's just continue to work on this qemu livecd.

I have OS X working in SLAX now using the same method as knoppix... I am about to test natively on my p3.
I also have it working in vmware..

Dragon

Show us some evidence. An instruction manual too, perhaps?

no, i'm talking about taking the aqua ui off of say 10.3, replacing the kernal and low level part of os x with a x86 version of darwin. after all, the file system is still the same, and the ui will still be making calls to all the same parts of darwin. i'm just not to sure on how to seperate the ui from the base os.

First of all, 10.3 is PPC only. Secondly, the gui requires SSE2 emulation which we CAN'T do.

Anyway here is the 'evidence'. I will write a guide in about 2 hrs (watching a movie).

Dragon

Here are the instructions :

1. Download SLAX Kill Bill Edition from : http://www.slax.org/download.php
2. Burn ISO to cd using burning software such as "Nero" or "Disk utility"
3. Boot SSE computer using the SLAX CD.
4. At boot screen enter "slax copy2ram" or "slax toram" AND "flux" (for fluxbox desktop)
5. This will take several minutes.
6. After it has copied to RAM and has loaded the GUI, open up an xterm window.
7. Make sure you have a harddrive you can wipe in your pc.
8. You need to format that harddrive as ext2, so if you are ready to wipe it use the command - "mke2fs /dev/sda"
9. Input "Y" and press enter.
10. Then in xterm use these commands : "mkdir /mnt/harddrive" AND "mount -t ext2 /dev/sda /mnt/harddrive"
11. After it has finished creating the partition, connect to a pc on the network via Konqueror (you can open it from the flux menu) e.g (\\computername\).
12. Copy your tiger-x86-flat.img to /mnt/harddrive from konqueror. (open 2 windows)
13. Once that has finished, it will probably take 15 minutes or longer, go to your xterm window and use
"qemu -hda /mnt/harddrive/tiger-x86-flat.img -m 480 -no-kqemu -boot c"
and use "platform=X86PC "Graphics Mode"="800x600x16" -v" as usual.
14. Help me get this working with an accelerator.


Cheers,
Dragon

Hows it run Is it crazy slooow

isn't that oldsql Deadmoo? I have my doubts any SSE cpu is really well working that way, maybe you should switch to something unique and antique like Rhapsody which will run with that old CPU (not meant as a offense). I doubt it will be possible to get another old in development Version of OSx for x86.

I need the modified qemu that Jagermeister posted to run the later install DVD's. I'm just using the deadmoo image currently because it works with the qemu that comes with the distro.

I will try to get Jagermeisters one compiled on SLAX and use that to boot up 10.4.8. Then I will go through all of the accelerators available and find one that works on SSE.

BTW, OS X doesn't run that badly (tested 30 mins ago). Not too slow that it's unusable, but it's not quite usable yet. I'll have to see what it's like with the accelerator.

can you xbanch and geekbench it?

alrighty.. coming soon

Excellent work Dragon!!

I will follow your instructions and report on the findings.

if networking works, is there anything stopping these things being configured as Xgrid clients? That would make a load of boxes I have hanging around useful

also, slightly off-topic, is Xgrid universal? ie. does it matter if some computers are PPC and some are intel?

this is off-topic though why don't you just make a linux cluster out of them and run OS X ?

Sorry, still haven't done the benchmarks... will do them soon.

Dragon

I'm trying to get a bit more power for my power mac lol, and to have a play with Xgrid - like the look of it

guys, I have a lot of school stuff that I have to do, can someone follow my instructions and post a benchmark?
i'll be finished this stuff in a couple of days and I will still be checking up on this post frequently.

Cool project. As someone said earlier similar projects has been in the works before, SoftPear is another one which hasen't been mention before.

PearPC is without sound and slow but the cool thing about it is that it seem really stable. As it is the PPC-version you could make updates without a problem just like a real Mac. I haven't had a single problem with a app who hasent run either when I tried it out in the past. I know someone has been working on a sound patch for PearPC, but I don't know it's status.

Anyway, whether you go for QEMU (which came out with a new version yesterday btw: http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/) or PearPC or both, it will be very interesting to read about this progress.

@Baltazar: SoftPear is a completly different project, SoftPear is to run OSX applications in Windows/Linux. It's not comparable with PearOS.

note that you will need Xbench 1.2, the newest Xbench 1.3 doesn't work on 10.4.1. You can download 1.2 here
but I wouldn't use Xbench anyway. It's the actual performance that matters. Could you tell us how long it takes to boot OSX86 up, to launch individual applications like Safari etc?

this would be very interesting if you do find an SSE compatible accelerator. I have an old P3 I wouldnt mind sacrificing to the cause

@MacRetail: You're right, mixed up those two. It was quite a while since a check out this projects now.

It would also be intresting to see how SLAX > QEMU > OS X + accelerator (SSE2) is compared to Win XP - Vmware WS -> OS X speedwise.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U4XZFYOX


This is :
XP Pro SP2 > Vmware > Slax > qemu(no accelerator) > OS X

So Slax is not even being run natively in this vid, and qemu is running without any acceleration. That is a fairly reasonable speed considering it's being virtualized inside another virtual machine with no acceleration...

I can tell you it's faster natively and nowhere near as low responsive as the vid. You will have to try native yourself because my p3 isn't hooked up to the network. If I get some free time tomorrow afternoon I will be looking for an accelerator.

I have hopes that with an accelerator we will have speeds fast enough to use as a main OS.

Dragon

Hm, get a error trying to watch the vid in the newest VLC, need a codec or something, other player?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=D4HMPALI

converted, only 6mb and plays in vlc fine