I know what your saying. And I certainely know its hard work. I was pretty pissed off that day for some reason. Oh, I have an idea. I will flash lin bos on my p3. Then I will experment.....

hey guys, i'm extremely interested in your project as it would be brilliant to get os x to work on any old pc! i would be interested in testing etc. have got your slax image although i don't have a copy of os x at the moment (there's dozens of linux cds around here though!).

before i try to download a 2gig torrent or something, do you guys reckon i should go for the intel or the ppc one? i'm leaning towards going for the ppc ver as i know that pearpc has been developed for a lot longer than qemu, although i know that length of development isn't everything! also, if anyone lives in the uk and happy to do a rip of one for me i'd gleefully accept and send you a postal order for the p&p/price of disk in the post

hi

yes finally i could run OSX on my box (Athlon Xp 2600+) but it´s very slowww i think because it´s running from X, i can´t open qemu from the slax console it says somenthing like "couldn´t open PC bios ./bios.bin" and "can´t open SDL display library" now i ask why couldn´t it run from console and can from X server? and another issue the deadmoo Vmware image has a patch for running SSE2 opcodes but the qemu included on dragon´s slax iso has SSE3 support, i think the SSE2 patch is f***ing the speed of the deadmoo image if qemu has SSE3 support why apply SSE2 patch? i think if we can make an SSE3 clear instalation of OSX qemu will run it faster ( not too fast but we can win a little speed) an what about linuxBios i´m very interest on this did you see? you can have a linux console in less than 6 seconds it´s amazing!

thnxs all for helping with this special thinks to dragon for making slax iso and help all of us to run OSX on SSE-less hardware

is there anyway to run qemu without an X server?

Qemu requires SDL libraries and a minimal x server. But good thinking @ndres on the SSE3 emulation in deadmoo, but we aren't going to be using 10.4.1. If you take an image of a 10.4.8 install without the SSE3 patch, we can use that for a final DVD. At the moment there is a problem booting from an OS X iso, so until we can solve that, we have to use HD images. A 10.4.8 image won't have SSE3 patches applied.

this is the plan :
P3 Athlon XP etc.. flashed with linux bios (if compatible)

7 seconds ---> x server + sdl
startup script
messagebox asking for pearpc/qemu (kqemu option for people who can't get OS X working on their P4 comps) + option to boot from hd image or dvd (new install)
initiate pearpc/qemu as fullscreen reading from hd or dvd

PS: Masterofcomputers, check if your bios is compatible for LinuxBIOS

I've been thinking if is there any way to make qemu virtualize real hardware like Graphics card, sound and ehternet, if it's possible qemu will run OSX just like native because it will virtualize the hardware and just emulate SSE2/3 opcodes so the speed will increase (i think) and we can use our real Grapics card, get some aceleration, use native network, and sound i think with linuxbios it will be possible, but it just an idea.

Now i'm integrating SSE3 patch to qemu 0.9.0 i read in changelog that this version is fully compatible with ACPI and with SSE3 support posibly it boot the .iso to make a clear instalation of OSX. just testing

If you patch 0.9.2 like in Jagermeisters post, it will apparently boot from the iso.

you probably mean qemu 0.8.2

Yeah

i´ve got too problems while compiling qemu (0.9.0 and 0.8.2) i just apply SSE3 patch succefully but the when i try to compile it say somenthing like "[leaving directory..... /.../../] error 1 , make *** [op.o] Error 2 " i´m using gcc 3.2 from knoppix live cd, i´ll try with another gcc.

pd: target-i386/helper2.c file from qemu 0.9.0 got one line more so :

qemu 0.8.2 modified helper2.c file:

/* #ifdef TARGET_X86_64 */
/* currently not enabled for std i386 because not fully tested */
env->cpuid_features |= CPUID_APIC;
env->cpuid_ext2_features = (env->cpuid_features & 0x0183F3FF);
env->cpuid_ext2_features |= CPUID_EXT2_LM | CPUID_EXT2_SYSCALL;
env->cpuid_xlevel = 0x80000008;

/* these features are needed for Win64 and aren't fully implemented */
env->cpuid_features |= CPUID_MTRR | CPUID_CLFLUSH | CPUID_MCA;
/* #endif */

and qemu 0.9.0 original helper2.c file:

#ifdef TARGET_X86_64
/* currently not enabled for std i386 because not fully tested */
env->cpuid_ext2_features = (env->cpuid_features & 0x0183F3FF);
env->cpuid_ext2_features |= CPUID_EXT2_LM | CPUID_EXT2_SYSCALL | CPUID_EXT2_NX;
env->cpuid_xlevel = 0x80000008;

/* these features are needed for Win64 and aren't fully implemented */
env->cpuid_features |= CPUID_MTRR | CPUID_CLFLUSH | CPUID_MCA;
/* this feature is needed for Solaris and isn't fully implemented */
env->cpuid_features |= CPUID_PSE36;
#endif


i don´t if just copy and paste the Drjargemeister code or just write the same line only adding "/*....*/" symbols like:

/*#ifdef TARGET_X86_64*/
/* currently not enabled for std i386 because not fully tested */
env->cpuid_ext2_features = (env->cpuid_features & 0x0183F3FF);
env->cpuid_ext2_features |= CPUID_EXT2_LM | CPUID_EXT2_SYSCALL | CPUID_EXT2_NX;
env->cpuid_xlevel = 0x80000008;

/* these features are needed for Win64 and aren't fully implemented */
env->cpuid_features |= CPUID_MTRR | CPUID_CLFLUSH | CPUID_MCA;
/* this feature is needed for Solaris and isn't fully implemented */
env->cpuid_features |= CPUID_PSE36;
/*#endif*/

hmm, did you ./configure?

also i noticed this on the qemu page :

6.4 Mac OS X
The Mac OS X patches are not fully merged in QEMU, so you should look at the QEMU mailing list archive to have all the necessary information.


also I think we need to use the Mac OS X user space emulator that was mentioned before.

obviously i´ve done it
cd /to/qemu/path --> gzip -dc sse3.diff.gz | patch -p0 = sse3 patch applied to qemu 0.8.2 and 0.9.0
modify targeti386/helper2.c file
cd /qemu/path/
./configure
make = *** [op.o] Error 2
f ck!!!

this is what i´ve done, i think it doesn´t work cause i´m using and old version of gcc and i´m using a live cd to compile it "knoppix 3.2" (i got suse 10.0 with gcc 4 and it doesn´t work).

what do you mean with "Mac OS X user space emulator" i don´t understand your post and what about ny hardware virtualization idea is it possible?

this is what OoOoOoO was saying a few pages back.

@ndres, perhaps we should start working with PearPC seeing as it's apparently faster than qemu.

Dragon, i think using pearpc is doing somenthing that is already done, for me it seem like we are still emulating OSX on ppc, (that is not too fast) and this is not the intention, we still try to run OSX in the fastest x86 SSE-less machines so we could win speed, the problem is to figure out how can we make it run just like native this is the problem no?

in other way we can try to integrate the SSE2/3 emulation code in the kernel to run it natively, but we both don´t know anything about kernel tunning, and as i can see we´re just alone in this (no one has replied to our posts).

i´ll still trying with qemu if anyone can help we´ll been thankfull

I was thinking of:

1. An SSE-version of Darwin (I saw compile instructions for this somewhere) + QEMU
2. QEMU loads OSX Desktop (Aqua)

I have no idea how to do it however, and I fear it will still be slow.
Is it possible to use KQEMU in Darwin?

I think that's basically what the OS X user space emulator does.
Also sorry @ndres for not being able to make it onto IRC this weekend. I will try to get on ASAP this week.

Dragon, it´s OK don´t worry. I think the OS X user space emulator is other possibility, just tell me how it works an i´ll be pleased to feedback

is there anyway to contact someone like semthex or Jas, just to ask if they´re interesed in colaborate on this project ?

anybody still here?

Well I am here, but I am not capable of helping you with the project. If you send me detailed descriptions I can test for you on my SSE only machine, but I doubt that is less work than test it yourself. Looking forward to run OS X on my laptop (SSE only).

If you need any financial compensation, I will be glad to help...as I am a student it will not be much, but there is some...

Greetings,
Eddie.

Eddie if you want to help, install an SSE version of darwin (8.0 and lower) and try to run an SSE2 app using qemu-darwin-user /path/to/app

please post results

Hello, is this dead or are people still actively working on it? I have some idea's to speed up the performance which i am trying on my old computer and will take bench marks. If this is dead, well sorry for disturbing it's peace.

Mikeccc987, this is not dead Dragon and me still working on it, we´ll gratefull you can help testing and feedbacking, for now qemu idea is out but we still trying to integrate a Darwin OSX-User espace emulation code onto K**nel to make it work native and all of us can make a clean installation of OSX. If you want to help, Start installing Darwin for X86 SSE pc 8.0 or lower and wait for instructions from me or from dragon.

...

Hmm... How far have you guys got in making a sse2 emulating kernel? Are you going to use the nx, sse3 and core duo commands from other kernels.. or will you be making your own? Also what method are you guys using for installing darwin 8 on sse computers?

Since we can´t run OSX on SSE-less machines as native we´re now focus on emulate it at most usable speed using full SSE3 instruction set from qemu an ACPI to boot Iso´s so we can make a new OSX SSE3 installation.

Qemu is fully ACPI compatible on latest version (0.8.2 - 0.9.0) but hasn´t SSE3 support so i´ve trying to build a full ACPI SSE3 qemu but integrating SSE3 patch to qemu source make it unable to compile (op.c and Helper2.c errors while compiling), so what we have to do is to figure out how can we can apply SSE3 patch to qemu source and then modify files (using Dr. jagermister instruction to boot iso´s and disk images) to make it able to compile and boot iso.

The problem with SSE3 emulation code is that we are losing speed using disk images as Deadmoo that has installed SSE2 patches (why use SSE2 patch on qemu 0.8.1 that´s fully SSE3 compatible), also we can Add 3Dnow! multimedia instructions.

That´s the situation if anyone are intersed feel free to post!

Nobody want to help?

Well, I'm willing to help if necessairy, but frankly, I don't believe OSX on SSE could run at an acceptable speed.

Ok , at least one person is interesed.... well start, i´ll post the patched with SSE3, 3dnow! and Jargemeister code source from qemu to everyone start compiling and post results

MacRetail: there are SSE chips that run at 1.8Ghz and above, are you seriously suggesting that they are slower than my 350mhz B&W G3? thats an acceptable speed. I'm sure one of the later Athlons will have enough CPU cycles to counter the extra overhead.

So anyone have any other idea on qemu tunning to run OSX?

well we could use PearPC too

Btw: Aren't there any other SSE2 emulators besides QEMU? And could someone explain me what Dr. jagermister patch is all about?

MacRetail

Macretail, as i told to Dragon some pages ago, using PearPc is doing somenthing that is alredy done, i think we are trying to install (or emulate) OSX on fastest SSE-less chips (As athlon Xp 3000+), Jargemeister´s code is a little modification done on Targeti386/Helper2.c file from qemu´s source to make it able to boot Disk images as deadmoo, and yes there are another SSE2/3 emulators besides qemu as bochs but bochs is a little harder to use and haven´t ACPI

If we are doing that, we need to make an sse3, deadmoo style disk image of 10.4.8/9 and boot it using jagermeister's patched qemu. All we have to do is find out why it isn't compiling correctly.

@nd®£§§!!

Thanks for your explainaition and for all your efforts. I have an AMD Athlon XP 3200+ myself so if you want I'm willing to help testing.

BTW: Perhaps this link might be helpful?

Dragon, i don´t understand why do we have to make a deadmoo image, we are trying to make a qemu that can boot iso files so everyone can make they own installation and start it using qemu.

Macretail, if your AMD is not your main pc you can start lookin up if it is compatible with LinuxBios, but not yet because qemu aren´t fully able to boot iso so we are truncated here, LinuxBios is for all the people thath want to have ONLY .. ONLY OSX on his computer and just emulated... the idea is to flash Every Compatible PC with linuxbios, then Start an iso (using patched qemu), make a SSE3 installation and create a script to LinuxBios Launch qemu and Installation of OSX.

Qemu has trouble reading from OS X iso images but works fine with hard drive ones.

I´ve Found that there´s a new bios file for qemu that supports EFI that is the procedure to boot mac so here: http://bellard.org/qemu/efi-bios.tar.bz2 is the new bios file, everyone that want to try just download it and replace bios.bin for the one on qemu folder then try to boot OSX from iso and make a new installation, i suggest to use qemu 0.8.1 that have SSE3 support so you can make an SSE3 new installation

I would drop the idea of LinuxBIOS, it's just too complex and it won't help us much anyway. LinuxBIOS can only accelerate the boot speed of the Host OS, witch isn't our problem here; we want to finetune emulation speed. I think we should focus on that.

So the idea is:

Linux + QEMU + KQEMU (processor virtualisation + SSE2 Emulation) + OSX86

BTW: Thanks for posting the EFI-file!

if you use KQEMU it will only support SSE since thats what the processor has

Macretail, Kqemu will disable SSE2/3 emulation so Kqemu is not an option, but Using Linuxbios it will seem that is a Mac because it will boot the emulated OSX on our machines, so for now we are just focus on create an SSE3 qemu with support to boot iso´s.

Anyone has already been able to boot iso with EFI bios?

I tried booting the OSX iso with the standard BIOS, but it gave me ACPI errors on boot-up (even if I disabled ACPI). I"ll soon try the EFI file (does it support BIOS emulation?)

BTW: Do we need SSE3 Emulation? Isn't SSE2 the only thing we need?

edit: We should rethink our opinion. QEMU + KQEMU + OSX86 works! I just tried it. I did get graphical errors, tough.

REQUIRED:
1. QEMU Manager (includes QEMU and KQEMU)
2. a SSE-only-processor (I used AMD Athlon XP)
3. an OSX HD image (I used the famous tiger-x86-flat.img, but it's 10.4.1)

HOW?
1. download QEMU Manager here
2. make a new VM
3. install and enable KQEMU
4. disable ACPI in your VM
5. RUN
6. start up with: (only platform=x86pc is essential here)
7: you"ll end up with this:


With KQEMU, but it had a lot of graphical glitches and if you open an application other then the finder, OSX crashes. It's strange because when I boot OSX86, it doesn't say I have SSE2...

Macretail, the graphics errors that you are getting are caused by KQEMU because it disables SSE2/3 emulation code and Aqua GUI requires at least SSE2 code to run fine but this is a nice discover, i mean probably KQEMU disables only a part of SSE emulation code, so little this part that can boot OSX, if it is true we can find a way to modify KQEMU to let all SSE2/3 emulation code run, but it is just a hypotesis, do you get a rasonable speed using KQEMU? and what about EFI bios have you try it?

If you don't have SSE3 then Kqemu won't load, although it will appear to load.
type lsmod in terminal to see if kqemu loaded

I don't think we will be able to use kqemu, but with the EFI bios that andress has found, we might be able to boot an iso and install a version of OS X without built in SSE3 emulation.
That way we don't have to emulate the SSE3 instructions twice like we do with the 10.4.1 image.

So at the moment just try get the 10.4.8 iso booted with the EFI bios and we should see an increased speed.

1. KQEMU is loaded in user mode. I pressed CTRL+ALT+2 and typed in "info kqemu" and it says it's loaded. So that's garanteed. But if I load KQEMU in kernel mode as well, OSX doesn't boot. Weird!

2. About the speed; it's a lot faster than without KQEMU, but I still believe PearPC is the fastest. The stability is very low; I can use the Finder up to some level, but the system crashes if I open any other application.

3. QEMU doesn't boot if I use the EFI BIOS, probably because OSX86 10.4.1 is made for regular BIOS and the EFI BIOS might have no BIOS Compatability layer.

there is no updates?, is this dead?

I dont really understand why SSE cpus cannot emulate SSE3 the same way as SSE2 cpus does trough the kernel, I guess the cpu is making some kind of illegal instruction error and starts executing some machine code after and bam there comes SSE3 emulation and magically fixes what the SSE3 instruction should have done and then jumps back to where it was an execute as normal. In this case the "only" thing that needs to be done is more instructions to emulate. right?

My guess would be that writing the emulation would take an awful lot of time and no one is interested in doing it. Or am I completly wrong? Probably

What is the technical difficulty emulating SSE3 on SSE compared to emulate it on SSE2?

@ Common Sense, SSE Cpus probably can emulate SSE3 code but no one is interesed on write the code to emulate it, well actually the code is already written, (qemu SSE3 emulation source code) but no one is interesed on integrate it on OSX kernel, and the people that are insteresed (all of us) don´t know how

I want to run OS X in Pear PC. But when I went to download the 6gb image from the pearpc site, kaspersky said it had a trojan. anyone know how to install OS X without the 6gb image?

disable kaspersky? *shrug*

I think what we need to do here is ask a dev very nicely to spend a week or so of their time integrating some of the QEMU code into the OS X kernel. We could have a whip round and raise some cash to make it worth their while? I pledge £5 to whoever does this.