Guys:

Have any idea where the rather shady "Copland" build of Mac OS is? I can't find much information on it.



Guru

Copland was never finished. When they decided to end this program, all they had was pieces of code which should have magically gotten together to work.

[EDIT] : just in case, I gogled a little and found out that a copy of "copland dr-0" was sent to some developers, but it usually crashed before they had time to do anything productive.

You might want to take a look at this.
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/01q2/macos-.../macos-x-1.html

I used to have a copy but i lost it along with Rhapsody and years of downloaded crap in a bit of a partitioning accident when i installed OSX86. I had downloaded it from some Hotline server ages ago. It only ran on a VERY select few powermacs, needed another connected at all times set up as a debugger and pretty much did nothing. Its still floating around some ftps and hotline servers, i think. i never got it working either, but i never had anything that would run it anyhow. I did try it on my powerbook 1400 but it bombed and crashed at boot. There is scarce info about on it. There was one forum which i found a ton of info for it on, but i cant remember what it was. Ill delve into google and see what we can scrounge up!


http://macdomain.abwnet.org
seems to have a download but its down.

http://www.68kmla.net/
these guys are fair cluely about copland too

and of course wiki has a fair swath of info too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland

Part of the reason for this was that the versions floating around were designed for hardware developers so that they could help Apple with stabilizing the system. It never reached the point of being sent to software (application) developers.

The underpinnings of Copland started to be integrated with the Mac OS with Mac OS 8.0/8.1, with more elements being added with Mac OS 8.5/8.6 and 9.0/9.1.

Copland originally was to have a completely new application environment, but developers got wind of this and protested forcing Apple to rework the application environment in Copland to be based on the original Mac APIs.

When developers pulled pretty much the same protest with Rhapsody, Apple turned to the application environment built for Copland. This was how Apple was able to get Carbon running on a special version of Rhapsody 5.1 for WWDC so that they could demo apps like Simple Text, AppleWorks 5 and Photoshop 5 running natively in Rhapsody during the Keynote with only a few weeks of work.

Of course the fact that they were able to do all that within a few weeks is also why Apple gave overly optimistic release dates for Mac OS X. Once they spent a little more time with "Carbon" they quickly found that the Copland development team wasn't as far along as they had originally thought... and that getting Carbon ready for real world use was going to take quite a bit longer.

Apple also had to prove to old Mac developers that Carbon was going to be given as much attention as Cocoa in Mac OS X. This was why Apple started over from scratch in building the Finder as a Carbon app. By making the single most important application in Mac OS X a Carbon app, Apple showed developers that they were truly investing time and effort in the Carbon environment.



When you think about it, by Mac OS 8.5 quite a bit of Copland was present. A number of the kernel elements had been added (enabling multitasking, multithreading and partial protected memory), the Platinum theme (and themes in general by 8.5) were added, special find and open/save dialogs were added (this was completed by 9.x), and the application environment was added (with the addition of Carbon in 8.5).

Copland by itself may have been a failure as a stand alone OS, but almost every part of Copland was eventually used.

Apple made great use of the concept of "waste not, want not" after Jobs returned. In addition to using many parts of Copland for both Mac OS 8/9 and Mac OS X, Apple also reused the technology in MAE (Macintosh Application Environment for UNIX based systems) in the development of Blue Box... which later became Classic.

I wouldn't even be surprised to find that Apple used elements of MacX in X11 (though I'm not sure that it would have been as helpful as other previous Apple technologies as a starting point).



Anyways, that may help put Copland into a little better historical perspective.

well, idk, matt was gracious enough to give me the files, but theyre just files, not an iso or anything, any insight matt?

if anyone can tell me how i would go about getting this into iso format it would be much appriciated (heh arix)


max

Ok dude... here is the lowdown. I just found out from a collegue that the Copland .SIT files are to be opened and installed on a system with MacOS 7.5.x or MacOS 7.6.x already installed. When you want to try Copland, boot up System 7.5 or 7.6, extract the .SIT file to a directory, and run the installer. There is no such thing as an iso. In this case, you may want to get a m68k emulator and install System 7.5 or 7.6 on it and install Copland in the emulator. Hope that helps.



Guru

ohhh thanks, allright will do


max

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not much of an expert on emulation, but how is a PowerPC operating system supposed to run in a 68k emulator?

Did I miss something here?

System 7 was for 68k last time I checked.

And Copland was PowerPC the last time I checked.

... which means that the question remains: How do you run a PowerPC OS in a 68k emulator?

Can we just forget the 68k red herring? how about sheepshaver? That should be able to boot 7.6 & unpack the SITs.. I'm just wondering what kind of rom it would need to run to work with both sheepshaver & copland..

I remember copland floating about way back in the day.. the only thing that really caught on was the gui, & numerous themes were made to make MacOS more coplandish.. I think I ran one or two myself..

In any caser, this isn't one I'm going to get into, I still have rhapsody to untangle (damn graphics drivers)

c@rr@ch0

68.44.250.101:9700


might be interesting.....

Uh... what is that?



Guru

Hey, what was the compuetr designed for copland for?

m68k and PPC platforms are supported by Copland as far as I know. SheepSaver may be able to pull off Copland!

Guru

Sheepshaver only boots Mac OS 8.5 and above I think..

Afaik Copland never worked in an emulator. There are two versions of it floating around, D11E4 (which probably doesn't require a debugger) and D7E1. I only ever got D7E1 to boot, and that was to an error screen (unable to find gDevice).

no, it can go all the way down to 7.6 (and maybe lower)

Can anyone write a small HOW-TO install copland in a pre-existing System 7.5 installation?

Thanks!

No one's gotten it to work yet.

idk, ill try it out some time.


max

I didn't mean "how to get it working"....
I just asked if there's a "standard" way of simply installing it...
I saw that we have to do something with "scarecrow" and "non-scarecrow" volumes...
what does it mean?

Guys, you do realize that none of these releases were designed to be run "in the wild", on stand alone systems.

These releases were for hardware developers to help create drivers to finally put together a stable (self supporting) release.

As it is, Copland releases were for very specific hardware to run on and additionally needed a second system to support the running of Copland on the hardware it is running on. Further, you need a hardware debugger running on the secondary system to provide the support to keep Copland running at all.

So unless you can emulate two Macs connected to each other via a serial connection with at least one of them meeting the hardware requirements for Copland... you are all barking up the wrong tree.

For those of you with Macs that fit the qualifications... experience setting up and using a hardware debugger to initiate and sustain the Copland system would be needed (assuming that you even have access to the debugger software needed to do all that).

But if any of you get that far, this is most likely what you'll be greeted with during startup...


Best of luck.

@ GURU

c@rr@ch0 is Carracho ....The application

68.44.250.101:9700 ............... is the address of a server ) whose name escapes me) where a bunch of older mac os's are housed/hosted....... Incl Rhapsody



Unless I mistaook yr question...........

PM me if i am way off base

Nice server, but there isn't much there that we don't have already... Thanks though

not at all and AriX, its good that he helped out ne ways, and i think when he posted it originally we didnt have much...

There is a Rhapsody file... I'm hoping it is the PPC version...

EDIT: Yeah, it is the PPC

Is it DR1 or DR2? Cause I have DR2 PPC, it's downloading and uploading now.

dunno... the connection went down while downloading...
I'll download it again tomorrow.

However, this is the file name:

Rhapsody PowerMac.toast.sit

RacerX (or anyone who thinks they can answer),

You think I could get a Copland build up and running on my PowerMac 6100?

copland mirror

{link removed as requested below}

curtsy of that famous junkie site....

"More information with detailed installing information can be found in the "How to" included in the file. Again, this is a prerelease software. Back up all data before use!
The file is compressed as sitx with 37,7MB, "msjstw" password, expanded it's a NDIF (.img) with 85MB."

BTW:

Hardware Supported

NuBus-based Macintoshes: 6100/60, 6100/60AV (no AV functionality), 6100/66, 6100/66 AV (no AV functionality), 6100/66 DOS (no DOS functionality), 7100/66, 7100/66 AV (no AV functionality), 7100/80, 7100/80 AV (no AV functionality), 8100/80, 8100/100, 8100/100 AV (no AV functionality), 8100/110
Nu-Bus-based Performas: 6110CD, 6112CD, 6115CD, 6117CD, 6118CD
PCI-based Macintoshes: 7200/70, 7200/90,7500/100, 8500/120, 9500/120, 9500/132

Please remove that link. It is against the rules to post it. Instead, ask people to pm you for it.

well, your gonna have to remove it out of your quote, and didnt u see the one i posted a whial back (now removed LOL), dont worry about it consolation but please, do remove it

lol you're right

It is Mac OS 8 (DR) codename "Copland"

Thank you consolation for respecting us and welcome to the forums

Anybody knows a place where I could get the two Copland Builds. All the links I found are dead.

Thanks,