This will now be the new development thread for all things related to running hacked OS X on Live DVDs off of white box PC machines. This thread will replace MrBond's previous thread here and my thread in OSX86Installation. As usual, we all need help so if you think you can contribute or you know something useful, please don't hesitate to post.

Main forum admin: REVENGE
Main developer: modbin

-The general goals of this project are:

Create an HFS image that contains a system capable of booting and running GUI from a DVD environment.

Fuse it to a bootable ISO image that contains a bootloader, creating a hybrid ISO.

Enable the use of Dock, Finder, and compatibility with most OS X software.

Enabling at least a 10.4.4+ system to work

-The parts of this project which have already been completed are:

Bootloader: I'm currently using the HOTiSO install image that's floating around. The bootloader works fine for this purpose. In the future, we'll probably switch to using the scripts that were used to create the HOTiSO image in the first place.

GUI: WE HAVE A DOCK+FINDER!!! Developer modbin has been able to get Finder+Dock working with 10.4.4/10.4.5 install DVD. Bugs still exist, but the GUI system is currently debugged.

CXLauncher is no longer being used [it was slow as hell with rosetta anyways]

System: Once again, modbin has come through and figured out the files that need to be added to the patched install DVDs in order to create a LiveDVD capable of running most applications. And again, this will always be under constant debugging/development to test for compatibility, etc.

-The parts of this project currently in active development/debugging are:

RAMDisk: Currently, modbin is using rc script ramdisk creation, which is a working temporary solution. Ideally, a global ramdisk that creates them on demand would be the best solution. Adapting Charles's ramdisk system from BootCD sounds like a good idea.

Startup scripts: We are still looking for a startup script that can take care of launching the system services. Currently, Dock/Finder are being manually launched along with any other services we need. Ideally, we should get LaunchDaemons to work. However, this may not actually be a rc script problem...

GUI: Dock+Finder bugs will be smoothed out as they are encountered.

And thus, our persistence is finally paying off. The OS X LiveDVD holy grail is now close at hand, with our amazing devloper modbin leading the way! However, despite the progress we've made so far, there is still much more work to be done. We have a diamond in the rough; it is now time to cut and polish. Keep watching this thread for more status updates, as new developments are now occuring on a weekly basis. And if you can, join us in our efforts and help us achieve our goals together.

New info: It looks like Tri-Edre's Clone X bypasses the rc scripting problem by launching a proprietary application called cxlauncher.app during startup, which handles GUI startup, etc. The problem is that this is of course a PPC app and I don't know if rosetta loads on startup or not. In the default Clone X image, the /usr/libexec/oah folder isn't even copied, and cxlauncher fails to launch due to a bad cpu type.

I actucally did some work with this trying to do the same thing back with 8f1111
i found that the rc script didnt need to be edited but it was the rc.cdrom that if edited would doo nicely
heres the thing, ive found that i could get a mac os boot from HD without read/write access if i make a skel folder with my kernel and kernel linking files (mach.sym, mach) and on boot copy it to a ramdrive that is mounted as root. create partitions for /System /Library /Applications /Users and mount the as folders in the root ram drive. the only problem with this was that i was unable to make this boot from dvd
anyways i hope this helps something
if you need any help (uncledubie@hotmail.com)
Nick

Thanks riffer, I will investigate that method. In the meantime, I do have a small success to report. I've gotten Tri-Edre's CXLauncher application to boot from the installation DVD! This basically gives you a small live system that can launch any application you want. With the additional room on the DVD, you should be able to get a host of applications on there. Best of all, this thing will run on any Intel/AMD system regardless of patches, and you'll have the ability to launch the setup app if you want to. Of course, this means that the next step is getting dock and finder to work, which is gonna be tricky...

Might I suggest the X Labs for this development?

Maybe...Do you mean by moving this thread over? Because other than basic instructions, I don't think I have that much else to share. In addition, there is the question of the legality of distributing CXLauncher.app and the rc scripts without Tri-Edre's permission.

Basically it would enable you to have control over this thread, moderate the forum, do what you want, etc. Plus it grants legitimacy. And it has a cool name.

Awesome...Yeah, it would be great if you could move this thread over to X Labs...or do you want me to create a new thread myself?



Holy {censored}, I've got some good ideas that are about to be incorporated into the next build. With luck on my side, a real usable livedvd might be completed within half an hour. It won't necessarily have dock, but it will have decent native performance and application compatibility. Stay tuned for more. construction.gif

Am I blind or is there no "subscribe to topic" button .. ? Well anyway, now I should be subscribed ..

Well ive had my doubts about this project , "live dvd", but seeing how involved you are and your progress .. Thats a really good sign.


I look forward to test it and try it. I hvae 2 pc's..

1.

p4 650
1gb
x1800 xt


2.

t2600
1gb
x850 xt (which doesnt work for me as far as osx86)
but the board has gma 950...

Ugh, with new insights and solutions come a SHIITLOAD of new problems...so anyways CXLauncher is useful, but the limited range of applications it can launch using the Installer's System config is limited, to dramatically understate the problem. Well, it's off to continuing to build a system that doesn't fail on startup, although the task is (i hope) getting simpler.

why not make a loader to boot other apps?

We already have a loader that works (albeit a bit slowly) so for now, that will not be part of the dev goals. The real problem is getting applications to load, and that I suspect depends on the frameworks/services/whatever that OS X loads on startup. Specifically, I believe that I need to get the decrypted 10.4.6 files and libraries and merge them into the installer's base system. Also, I'm having problems getting the normal CoreServices (which includes dock+finder) to integrate into the install dvd's image. In fact, what I really want to know is what files do I need to get all apps working, and what Dock+Finder needs to load. *sigh, it will be back to debugging later this afternooon.

In one of the test builds, ramdisk creation is successful, but application launch fails due to some discrepancy between the dylibs being called and the ones that are actually available. This is especially puzzling because I see no difference between the dylibs that the installer's system and a regular system are using. For some damned reason, I'm getting either a "image not found" error, or if I replace the dylibs again using Transmac, a "file to short" error. If someone could clarify, I'd greatly appreciate it.

maybe we need to find out how charles got the power pc one to load then alter stuff so that it works on x86?

Yeah, I also think that's what we should do. I'm trying to get ahold of the latest beta still.

Welcome to the X Labs!

Hey Revenge...apologies for taking so long to respond to you...I've been a bit busy. It's good to see you're getting everything organized...things are looking good.

With regard to the ramdisk, that was one of the goals I had in mind. It would make running a true OS X environment live much easier, as opposed to having to use methods such as CXlauncher. I'll double check to see if I have that beta copy of bootCD around somewhere, and post it here if I find it.

Ultimately, it would be ideal if we could get it to run in a similar way to Knoppix, with on-the-fly compression and whatnot. Though I'm sure there'd be a multitude of legal issues...so one step at a time.

EDIT: Okay...found it. But in the email that Charles had sent me, he said that he'd rather not people distribute this, as it's not a public beta yet. Nevertheless, I think it would be of a great help to us, so PM me if you'd like to tinker with it.

--
You asked what user the Installer runs under, if u run the instal DVD and show everything inthe log, youll see that Installer isrunning as the user "DeveloperRoot"

Thanks fireshark. I'm assuming that this is equating to basically root single user mode. I don't think this is affecting application compatibility, so it looks like we have other problems...

So after a "few" hours, I've finally gotten the latest beta BootCD to cough up an image file. I am now proceeding down the same path as DrX I believe, and I think we might have a chance.

Intersting, keep up the great work!

you guys are cool. keep up the good work.

Yes, definitely keep us posted!

Guys, Micromat did it - we need to get that DVD .. Go check here.

We need to get hold of that DVD to tear it apart...

right. I have scanned all available "sources", but that babe is still too fresh. Right now it looks as if someone will have to buy it (most efficient the upgrade for just $ 25).

it just looks like a sytem recovery dvd.. not the type of livedvd that we want to create. it may help with files/ideas on getting a proper livedvd working but it looks like mobdin has already provided us with the basics in this thread : http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=22193 He has already got a working dvd with finder and dock but is using the 10.4.1 kernel. I am going to try mobdins instructions on the 10.4.3 dvd and see what happens. After that we need to customize the dvd and tidy it up a bit.

Still, if anyone can get a copy of this DVD i'm sure it will come in handy at some stage.

Dragon

I wouldn't be so sure about that until booting that disk ..
.. but it is based on Apple's install DVD and even launches the installer first thing (which he probably could have closed by going into the dock, right click on the Installer icon, force quit, but oh well ..). Micromat's version must boot right into the finder in order for their app to work, so that's one step further, see?

I would love to know what version of the OS they use, and if other Apple utils (like Disk Utility) are also accessible - and if so if drag&restore works with DU ..

Well we'll see what we can do with it if we get a copy. If the DVD has code built in specifically for recovery I would think that it would be harder to patch than the install DVD which already loads the basic operating system.

The key point here is that this DVD BOOTS on Intel Macs and LAUNCHES third party apps successfully. Therefore, I think it will help...

Yes I agree revenge, IF we can get it to boot 3rd party apps. BUT, the question will be whether or not it will be capable of booting them without a lot of patching. This company have turned the DVD into a recovery tool specifically to do that. It may be a help or may contain files that are needed in creating a live 10.4.3 DVD, but like I said in my previous post I think it would be way easier if we created the liveDVD using the install DVD because I can't imagine what this DVD would have that wouldn't be included in the version Mobdin created of 10.4.1. The DVD may contain some files that are needed to get the 10.4.3 kernel running and we'll have to have a look at it when we get hold of it. Mobdin has shown that modifying the install DVD will give us a liveDVD that will boot 3rd party apps and has almost the same functionality as an actual install would. All it needs is a new kernel (still haven't tried mobdins instructions on 10.4.3 dvd) and some tidying up. This recovery DVD is also for intel macs so you will have to apply a kernel patch. So do you think it would be worth it to create a x86 patch for this DVD or customize the original installer which is already packages together and running WITHOUT 10.4.3.

I personally think we would be better off having a look at this recovery DVD and adapting some of the code to execute applications from it.

Anyways revenge, what could you possibly need from this DVD that couldn't be achieved in the install DVD. So I agree with you that it might help incase some files are needed to get everything running but I don't think we should be working on patching this recovery DVD seeing as we have already made progress on getting the install DVD running live.

Dragon has also got a point in the fact we need to continue to use the 10.4.1 Darwin bootloader due to the fact later upgrades use the EFI booting method meant for *real* macs. Therefore as the recovery DVD is designed for real OS X environments then it msot likely does not have the Darwin boot loader. This recovery DVD will still prove useful after the BIOS boot loader does its bit though.

Of course we aren't going to work on patching this dvd, that would be pointless and VERY illegal. However, as for loading it up with the existing kernel patches and seeing how far it goes, that might be useful. As for the issue with the bootloader, well we already HAVE prebuilt images with the darwin installer bootloader attached, so that is of little consequence. Just a matter of cloning this image onto that one.

Revenge is there any way I can get in contact with you? I am going to be going a way for 9 days and am going to have a lot of time on my hands, anything you can send me so i can work on this would be appreciated.

Is there any live dvd we can download yet? (apart from the kismus hackintosh dvd). The Kismus hackingtosh dvd is fine, but I don't know how to add application into it... If you only add the app to the ISO, it doesn't seem to work, I tried this with superduper and I can't load it from the DVD.

Err, to ye thread rezzer, notice that this project ain't coming back to life anytime soon.