http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html

Scientific, factual information, debunking the neo-left conspiracy theories.

fair enough. i didn't read the whole thing as i am not a scientist and can't understand most of it. but temperatures have always fluctuated and always will. it is just how things work. i think...

I think it is important to state that using the empirical test of theories, science can not truly prove a theory, but only disprove one. The idea of global warming is a theory. Theories, by definition can only be disproven. If a theory is sound and accurately explains the phenomenon under question, you should find empirical support for it. However, finding support for a theory is not the same thing as proving a theory. The best that one can do is to suggest a probability and then perform experiments to test them. Sadly, this can not be applied in any meaningful way to climate science. All the evidence in this argument is circumstantial by nature.


Both sides of this argument are stating theories, neither side can PROVE their hypothesis.

When the earth either freezes or melts, then we will have facts. Until then, this debate will continue to rage on.

I do think that the late George Carlin put it best when discussing the environment: (I paraphrase)

"We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these fu***** people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the f****g planet?
----
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fu****. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?
----
The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!"

I basically agree with the quote, but I must say that the statement is overly simplistic. It's not about saving the planet, of course, but about keeping the environment safe for us and for the generations to come. Turn on your thinking box and you will realize that
dumping chemicals into the water, burning/chopping down the trees, poluting the air and destroying the environment in general is going to affect us all in a bad way sooner or later.
Ever heard the phrase "don't sh*t where you live"? (or was it eat?. Yeah, I think I like eat better).

I also disagree with the part that says that "we don't know how to care for one another". Of course we know, we just DON'T CARE TO DO SO because of [include your government/media bashing reason here].

Cheers,

hecker

A few simple points. Unless the Earth is smashed by a giant asteroid or comet and turned to dust or the sun expands and eats us up the planet will go on no matter what we do or don't do. It will change and evolve. Animals (including humans) and plants will live and die. Whether we are having a big enough affect with all the crap we do to the environment to actually speed up any natural events that would or are happening anyways over time is up for debate. In the end, wouldn't it still be nice not to have all the crap that cars and factories and power plants, etc... put into the air be toned down a bit. Wouldn't it be nice if all the waters were just a bit (or alot) cleaner than they are now. Wouldn't it be nice if we had nice large areas of natural forest and jungles, and marsh lands and area's where the other animals we live with could have a nice home that we could visit and share with. Instead of taking the Yes or No side in regards to climate change and whether we as humans are affecting it, could we all just not use some common sense and say hey, instead of a huge smelly garbage dump could we not just recycle and reuse stuff, instead of dumping crap into the air or water could we not just spend a little extra time and money to clean it up or find ways of making less nasty. In the end, planet earth will survive with or without us no matter what we do. Whether it will be a nice place to live or not well that is totally up to basic common sense.

I love how you can deny the fact that the earth's temperature has been steadily increasing since the last ice age

if there is a ICE AGE then but why people live on IGLOOS. dumb man.

global waring is not rl because there is sun and sun makes things hotter. even my nephew nos that and she are just four yrs old. n leopard is all about space n u think mac maker would no a small joint about SUN IN SKY.....

rly they r need read sum book bout god cause all politcians live in hell in fire

If that is honestly what you think, you should probably think about changing your display name. But good news, you aren't totally wrong! You just left out part of one of your sentences. Here, let me finish it for you:
"rl because there is sun and sun makes things hotter" because of greenhouse gasses. There we go.

So what did you do? Go back in time and give a thermometer to a cave man?

Jon, even IF Global Warming is a whole lot of bunk, is there anything bad about protecting the environment? After a trip to Puerto Rico and going to the most secluded places there (on the outlying islands) and easily finding trash, that's sad and shouldn't that be stopped?

Not sure if this really applies here but: "The ends justifies the means."

Agree with djet.

Just tired of folks making it a political platform and the blame game.

Live an environmentally aware life? Good idea for all of us probably.

Its a conspiracy theory to distract you from the REAL enviromental problems. Like the bullshit that is being dumped into your water to medicate you without your consent. The depleted uranium in Iraq. The trash being dumped into the oceans, etc...

None of that is ever brought up in here. Just a conspiracy theory on something that doesn't exist, and has been dubunked countless times.

Ice. Rings.

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: iSkylla.

Groovy.

So you decided to ignore iSkylla for name calling or that kind of stuff, but you do it yourself in every post claiming that everyone else is stupid and ignorant for not accepting YOUR views and daring to challenge your supremacy, but still make posts regarding Hitler, communists, and other groups that very much exemplify the same behavior you do. I'm not attacking you here, I'm just trying to show you the way the rest of us view you.

I think most of us are missing the point here.

It doesn't matter whether we are causing global warming or not
It doesnt matter whether global warming is real or not.

The Earth will be here and living long after we're gone (if we destroy ourselves). Any environmental reforms aren't going to do much for the earth, they are however going to do a lot for us.

Whether any of this is true or not we should STILL be trying to reduce our impact on the environment, if not for the environment then for ourselves. Why not work to reduce our emissions, why not try to clean up our steams and rivers, my biggest question here is "why not?"

Exactly Killbot.

Congarts on your 1200 too.

Why thank you! (on both statements)

Ok, there is a fairly large list of things we can go through here:

Tree rings.
Tree rings can give us an accurate record of the relative annual temperature, back about a couple thousand years in recent trees, and hundreds of thousands in trees preserved in peat bogs, as well as petrified wood.

Ice cores.
I needn't say much about ice cores, except that they can give us, again, an accurate record of relative annual temperature (as well as precipitation and atmospheric content)

Coral reefs.
This is a relatively new discovery, but an absolutely fascinating one. I learnt a lot about this method of interpreting past climates when I was at St Andrews university the other week.
What they have discovered is that corals grow at a very precise rate (0.4 microns a day, or somewhere around that) and that the isotopes they absorb depend on the sea temperature.
This means that you can measure the average daily sea temperature going back hundreds of thousands of years!

In fact, if you line up the graphs generated from those 3 sources, they all correlate quite well.
In summary, they show large cycles of rise and fall of temperature, going from ice ages, to global warming. We have just come out of the ice age period (the last major ice age was 24,000 years ago, and then a minor one 10,000 years ago) and are in the period of global warming.

The interesting thing is that the periods of global warming are always followed by a sudden drop into an ice age.

Cave men with thermometers? There are better ways to measure the past climate than that!

Do these trees, ice cores, and coral reaves indicate that we had an Ice age?
Hardly likely.

Since when? The Little Ice Age that ended in the 1800's? Plus, with your FSM signature, I'm surprised you didn't realize that the decline of Pirates is the true cause of global warming:


That is just to prove that you can "prove" anything with a correlation. Also, have you noticed that "global warming" has been replaced by "climate change" for some inexplicable reason? Did you also know there must have been dangerous polluting SUV's in the Medieval Era, since temperatures were supposedly higher then than they were in the 1990's?

I'm all for not polluting and stuff, but JEEZE, what's going to happen if/when global warming is proven wrong? By simply making the name change, it seems like science is trying to get away from "global warming" for some odd reason.

Global warming is an observation. It is and has been happening. No debating that

Climate change is a theory, with past observations. Climate change in the past is a fact, climate change in the near future is debatable.

Mankind's connection to climate change is debatable, as there are no solid facts or direct observations.

Hope that clears things up

It sure does. Now I can sleep well at night again!

No but seriously, I agree. (Sorry, little high right now)

That's it in a nutshell, and speaking of nutshells...



You are entitled to your own opinions, but NOT your own facts

I seem to remember a New York Times editorial stating that Michael Moore was entitled to his own version of the truth after Fahrenheit 9/11 was released...

Great movie

Thats awesome. Too funny man. Pirates.

Personally, I think it will go the way of global cooling, disproven and buried. Earth's temporal climate changes happens all the time. The sun gets hotter, and colder. Its not man made. It is just a distraction from the real enviornmental issues. Such as the millitary industrial complex dumping depleted uranium all over the place causing cancer rates to climb.

Lol, I love how you keep saying Global Warming isn't happening and will be disproved.

Let's put it this way, if global warming wasn't happening, you would have a glacier over your house

If you want to see a movie that has quite a bit about debunking the theory see 'The Great Global Warming Swindle'. It is a very well made movie with lots of interviews and it is very easy to understand. Also did you know that temperatures went down during the Industrial Revolution?

Mr Mook Mook

Half-truths and rhetoric do not debunking make

This so-called movie had more holes than a fishing net.

Yes, I did

Though it was merely a small dip in the trend from 24,000 years ago.
There have been several dips since the last major ice age, but every dip in succession has been smaller. There was the 'mini' ice age 10,000 years ago, which covered Scotland in glaciers, but not England, for it example. There was the 'little' Ice age in the middle ages, and then the dip you spoke of during the industrial revolution.
They are small dips in the upward cycle, that will once again lead to a huge dip within 10,000 years.

Well, than kudos to you!

Mr Mook Mook

It also explains the small dip we may be experiencing at the moment.

There are some theories around that the dip in the industrial revolution was the start of the next major ice age, but that the CO2 emissions by humanity were enough to halt the cycle and allow temperatures to continue to rise to the levels they are at the moment, which, are quite a margin above those that the earth would be expected to reach going by the previous few cycles. The greenhouse effect is the most promising explanation at the moment.

The ocean's plankton puts out hundreds of thousands of tons of CO2 every day. Is plankton causing global warming?

You wonder why people think that you're a cartoon, and this is why You constantly post half-truths and rhetoric. Maybe instead of trying to get all of your "information" from the Internet, you should try to open up a real science book every now and then

The ocean also absorbs gigatonnes of CO2 too, it's all about the balance.

Why don't you do some reading and come back when you understand?

http://www.virtualsciencefair.org/2008/krol8a2

iPoco

Just some food for thought on the issue of Global Warming...

I'm not a scientist and haven't done enough research to really post an opinion. Here's a different angle to think about though.

I always wonder what's going through the mind of people that think we need to "save the planet". How big must our horse really be? The earth has been here for a long time before us, and I'm willing to bet it's going to be here a long time after us. The earth doesn't need saving. Our ego must be pretty big if we think that we're going to destroy the earth. We might kill the (current) inhabitants, but life will go on.
No one really wants to save the earth... it's all about self preservation.

Just something to think about.

Look, no matter what your opinion on global warming/climate change is, the fact is that current CO2 levels are higher than they've been for over 600,000 years.

How can that not affect our planet in some sort of adverse way? Shouldn't we be doing something to protect our environment even if global warming/climate change isn't happening?

Well said. CO2 is definitely going up, who cares what the causes are. Humans certainly are contributing to that cause, no doubt. We only have one planet. We need to lower the CO2 so that humans can continue to survive on this one and only planet of ours, plus it's the only responsible thing to do.

Yay for FSMism!

We need more pirates! Support National Pirate Day!

I didn't read it all but I do believe in the natural balance between glacial and interglacial periods.

*sigh*

It doesn't matter if you 'believe' in it, the evidence is clear that the earth cycles between warm and cold periods

..and I believe in the evidence although there are some people who don't believe in evidence. I know a few extremely religious Christians who do not believe that dinosaurs had ever existed and believe that God had put "dinosaur" bones in the earth to test their faith.

Praise Science!

Amen

Wow! Imagine living your whole life and then in the end finding out that everything that you 'believed in' was a lie It's really sad

Religion and common sense mix like water and oil.

Praise FSM! Pastafarians unite!



Thats even if their eyes are opened. The Christians I know still do this day don't believe it in and stand by their beliefs. Believe it or not but the band Underoath have confidence in the principle of fake dinosaur bones...I'm very certain it is Underoath.

...or their intelligence