X1600 w/DVI guys in here, Dual-Link working? Options

[xp3nd4bl3]

Have you guys with the fully functional (ie no DVI->VGA adapter) x1600 pro tried plugging into a 30" LCD? I'm wondering if the Dual-Link DVI out is working, if so I'll get rid of my x1900xtx and get a x1600 pro. Thanks!

[Kaspers]

I got 1900xt working with the dsub adapter. DVI is not gonna work...

[xp3nd4bl3]

Yeah my x1900xtx is working really well with the DVI to VGA adapter as well. There are a few models of X1600 cards that are actually working natively with DVI out. I'm wondering if anybody who's got one of those setups can tell me if it's working with displays that require Dual-Link DVI connection, ie the Apple 30" Cinema Display.

[Mighty Static]

I'm using ATI Radeon X1600 XT (Saphire) and don't have full DVI support, only "DVI to VGA" or VGA only.

[consolation]

"DVI to VGA" is just VGA, the DVI-I plug has a pass through for the VGA signal. DVI requires a working TMDS and shows up on different pins in the plug. What I'm trying to make clear, and what gets confused often on this forum, is that the DVI->VGA adapter does NOT convert a DVI signal into a VGA one. All it does is access the VGA signal already there that has nothing to do with either the GPU's internal TMDS or external TMDS chip (i.e. a DVI-I plug is a combination of a VGA/DVI-a (analogue) and DVI-d(digital plug)). For dual link you require TWO TMDS signals (dual right...) either two external TMDS chips (the usual Apple method until recent video cards) or the internal GPU + external TMDS chip. In my experience with X1600 (reasonably limited I must admit; but I still have not seen a working DVI through internal TMDS) only the external TMDS Sil chips produce a working DVI. So for dual link you would need to find a card with two external Sil chips on it. Since external TMDS (while usually of much higher quality) is more expensive PC manufacturers tend to rely on one internal and one external. Maybe if there is an X1600 based fire card? in the past they often had dual Sils...

[bofors]

"DVI to VGA" is just VGA, the DVI-I plug has a pass through for the VGA signal. DVI requires a working TMDS and shows up on different pins in the plug. What I'm trying to make clear, and what gets confused often on this forum, is that the DVI->VGA adapter does NOT convert a DVI signal into a VGA one. All it does is access the VGA signal already there that has nothing to do with either the GPU's internal TMDS or external TMDS chip (i.e. a DVI-I plug is a combination of a VGA/DVI-a (analogue) and DVI-d(digital plug)). For dual link you require TWO TMDS signals (dual right...) either two external TMDS chips (the usual Apple method until recent video cards) or the internal GPU + external TMDS chip. In my experience with X1600 (reasonably limited I must admit; but I still have not seen a working DVI through internal TMDS) only the external TMDS Sil chips produce a working DVI. So for dual link you would need to find a card with two external Sil chips on it. Since external TMDS (while usually of much higher quality) is more expensive PC manufacturers tend to rely on one internal and one external. Maybe if there is an X1600 based fire card? in the past they often had dual Sils...

Thanks for the details, my "cheap" dual-DVI PowerColor x1600Pro is supposed to arrive today (with a VGA adapter).

[consolation]

Actually, friend's PowerColor Pro I played with had an external TMDS and got working DVI... Now the model I got seems to share (!?) the internal TMDS or uses a chip I can't recognise and gave me VGA only. My one has only Chinese stickers on it, the one with the Sil chip has English. Both were listed as the same model BUT, my one was OEM.

[wondergod]

my sapphire x1600pro Crossfire Ed. dvi works but to get a resolution of 1440x900 I have to use vga....

so I can tell you don't get my one

[consolation]

my sapphire x1600pro Crossfire Ed. dvi works but to get a resolution of 1440x900 I have to use vga....

so I can tell you don't get my one

BTW, if any one has a DVI working through internal chip please post your card, I really want to try that bios to see if I can lurch DVI into life on my card

pretty please...

There is so many people reporting successful DVI and so few cards with external TMDS, someone out there must have the right bios that can be edited...

[wondergod]

i can check if mine is an internal/external...however i would need to know how...i'll be opening my pc this weekend for the monthly upgrade so if you tell me what to look for i'll take a peak.

[consolation]

i can check if mine is an internal/external...however i would need to know how...i'll be opening my pc this weekend for the monthly upgrade so if you tell me what to look for i'll take a peak.

Ok here is a typical one
 images_1.jpg ( 3.23K ) Number of downloads: 10


Here is one from a 6800

 nv40_tmds.jpg ( 27.07K ) Number of downloads: 8


And here is a whole bunch from X1900XT crossfire, it has the mother of all TMDS. Four!!! chips... What the hell is that supposed to drive? Dual 30"!?

 X1900CF_tdms_big.jpg ( 1.06MB ) Number of downloads: 14


As you can see they vary in size a fair bit. I'm not sure if there are any non Sil ones, I seem to remember reading that they own the patent or something.

[mac567uk]

Consolation

I have been on the trail of the elusive real DVI, not VGA passthrough with PCIe cards, I havnt found any X1600 with external TMDS. I have studied many pics in Google but no external TMDS.
I have also tried two of the common cards Sapphire X1600 PRO and MSI RX1600 PRO, no working DVI for either nad no external TMDS.

I have examined the ROMs in RABit, I think it also depends on the DVI header position in rom and its pci id.
The Sapphire x1600 pro has connector 1 as DVI connector and 0 as VGA. When my DVI monitor blanked with this card I VNCed in and there is no monitor picked like nothing connected!!!

As for the MSI RX1600 Pro it is inversed in the rom, DVI is connector 0 and VGA connector 1. Again DVI monitor blanks but when I VNC in the OS is picking up the EDID up fine and the OS thinks it is driving its at its native resolution but nothing on screen!!!! So something is working not sure what!!!

In both cards there is no external TMDS but it seems important for DVI detection that it is primary ID and connector 0 in rom header. Editing of roms for header did not do any good. There must be a problem with internal TMDS.
I have looked at MacBook Pro mobo photos couldnt find an external TMDS either!!

As for the case of Dual DVI that work cards I can only think that it is a ROM difference as internal TMDS are all the same as GPU is same rv530 whether Pro or XT. Again I have searched for external TMDS on X1600xt but havnt found any.
Was the working DVI you found top or bottom connector and was the TMDS on the back of the card because there is an large upopulated spot next to the DVI in most XT cards??

[consolation]

Consolation

I have been on the trail of the elusive real DVI, not VGA passthrough with PCIe cards, I havnt found any X1600 with external TMDS. I have studied many pics in Google but no external TMDS.
I have also tried two of the common cards Sapphire X1600 PRO and MSI RX1600 PRO, no working DVI for either nad no external TMDS.

Was the working DVI you found top or bottom connector and was the TMDS on the back of the card because there is an large upopulated spot next to the DVI in most XT cards??

The cards were early (in X1600 terms) X1600pros that came oem in built up systems from a local PC shop (no they won't tell me where they got them). Apparently they are Powercolors but they are like none that I have seen available retail or on Pcolor's website. They are VGA/DVI with DVI on bottom. The ram is ddr2 and they are clocked @ 500/800 with hynix ram just rated at the 800. The fan looks like the one on the ddr card on Pcolor's website. I thought I found a similiar one on the local version of ebay but my one has DVI on top and VGA on bottom and no external sil. The TMDS chip was on the front more or less between GPU and connector.

I have examined the ROMs in RABit, I think it also depends on the DVI header position in rom and its pci id.
The Sapphire x1600 pro has connector 1 as DVI connector and 0 as VGA. When my DVI monitor blanked with this card I VNCed in and there is no monitor picked like nothing connected!!!

I got "standard VGA display" (or something similiar) but no signal when I did the same.

As for the MSI RX1600 Pro it is inversed in the rom, DVI is connector 0 and VGA connector 1. Again DVI monitor blanks but when I VNC in the OS is picking up the EDID up fine and the OS thinks it is driving its at its native resolution but nothing on screen!!!! So something is working not sure what!!!

In both cards there is no external TMDS but it seems important for DVI detection that it is primary ID and connector 0 in rom header. Editing of roms for header did not do any good. There must be a problem with internal TMDS.
I have looked at MacBook Pro mobo photos couldnt find an external TMDS either!!

I think MBP uses EFI to initialise the internal TMDS properly.

As for the case of Dual DVI that work cards I can only think that it is a ROM difference as internal TMDS are all the same as GPU is same rv530 whether Pro or XT. Again I have searched for external TMDS on X1600xt but havnt found any.

I flashed a few different roms and tried to stich together a working rom without much success, in fact, most times I would be lucky to get the card to complete booting (I did mod timings and DIDs the best I knew how). That's why I thought that if I knew which bios initialised the card correctly at least I would have a starting point.
I have some ideas:

Card fails to get the monitor's EDID and hence never outputs correctly. (The fact that some cards get dvi but not widescreen resolutions could be correlated)

Whichever kext inits TMDS need specific hardware straps.

These straps have to match in BIOS and on the board.

Seems that getting a working card would be the obvious place to start...
I'm holding my fingers crossed for the unlikely alignment of new kernel, kext and bios combined with a plague of locust. I'm currently using the built in 950, my card is with a friend who thinks he has an idea from linux... Honestly, not holding my breath here. I might have another play with this if I have a bios that's known to work, or someone points me in the right direction. I've just recently moved over from PPC so i just hit the ground, so to speak.